2 Big Omaha Hands 5/10

[fimbulwinter]

First off, I know I'm playing above my skill level here. There were two total bad players throwing a party and I wanted in.

Onto the hands:



Hand 1:
4 handed, 5/10 blinds, i have ~1.8K and am covered by the table.

Bad Lag 1 is on SB, Bad Lag 2 is on CO.

me: A/images/graemlins/club.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif

CO minraises, I call on button (SB will threebet here and CO will call ~50% of the time, and i intended to push hard after that action). SB calls, BB calls.

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (80)

SB bets 30, all call (at this point i feel im behind, but have enough to peel. no?)

A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (200)

SB bets 200, i 800, he calls

K/images/graemlins/club.gif (1800)

SB bets 800, I call





Hand 2:
I (4K) have AA88r on the button and raise into the blinds, both call (BB who covers me is very good NLHE player).

J/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif (105)

BB leads for 105, I make it 400, He makes it 1200...


threebet is an easy fold, right?

fim

[autobet]

Your choices on the flop are between calling and raising. You have an overpair, gut shot, and backdoor nut heart draw. This is not a naked flush draw. Sometimes call, sometimes raise.

If my math is correct you have a few bucks left. Go ahead and raise. He wont show you a straight flush often enough to make the play wrong.

Not an easy fold at all. You are a favorite against trip jacks. An aggressive player might reraise with three kickers above the eight. You also have AA which may be blocking two of your opps outs. I'm not saying you should call, but it's a long way from a routine fold.

[BluffTHIS!]

Hand #1 I play the same. Hand #2 push headsup and fold if it's 3 way.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Your choices on the flop are between calling and raising. You have an overpair, gut shot, and backdoor nut heart draw. This is not a naked flush draw. Sometimes call, sometimes raise.

If my math is correct you have a few bucks left. Go ahead and raise. He wont show you a straight flush often enough to make the play wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that was my question. thanks for the response.


[ QUOTE ]
Not an easy fold at all. You are a favorite against trip jacks. An aggressive player might reraise with three kickers above the eight. You also have AA which may be blocking two of your opps outs. I'm not saying you should call, but it's a long way from a routine fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

the situation is all-in or fold here right?

fim

[autobet]

[/ QUOTE ]

the situation is all-in or fold here right?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I think calling is the worst of the three options.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the situation is all-in or fold here right?


[/ QUOTE ]

All-in takes away the bluffing initiative from an opponent who might not fill but will continue to represent it. You want to make the decision on the flop not a later street since you are already full and have only 1 out to improve.

[TheRempel]

Hand 1 is standard. Hand 2 I would be more inclined to raise here than to fold as your opponent is going to be pushing back at you with a naked jack way more often than J8. Your flop bet looks like a simple continuation bet with AA You are going to lose after the flop a good deal of the time but you're still a decent favorite unless you're already beat. If you're really lucky, he's pushing back with something like KcQ9Tc.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is standard. Hand 2 I would be more inclined to raise here than to fold as your opponent is going to be pushing back at you with a naked jack way more often than J8. Your flop bet looks like a simple continuation bet with AA You are going to lose after the flop a good deal of the time but you're still a decent favorite unless you're already beat. If you're really lucky, he's pushing back with something like KcQ9Tc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think im lucky enough to be seeing a draw here given the fact that the guy is a solid HE player and had been pretty tight with his chips thus far.

I was thinking about this hand, and against a holding i'd like to see like AKQJ im ahead but not by a lot. if he rolls J8xx or JJxx (his actual hand BTW) i'm shoveling in 400BB drawing essentially dead. such a situation in HE is a classic fold. I think it is here too.

ah well, live and learn.

fim

[TheRempel]

Like I said, most of the time you're ahead but not by much. Some of the time you run into J8 or JJ. I don't mind variance and am inclined to get all in on the flop against all but two or three of the players I routinely play against.

[Eaglesfan1]

I'm no PLO expert but i'll voice my thoughts anyway.

Hand #1-play it the same except raise the river since you don't have much more, just call if you do have a lot more behind. I like just calling the flop considering your up against the resident moron LAGs.

Hand #2-tough but the ultimate deciding factor is how deep the chip stacks and they are pretty damn deep in this example. Your in for 400 you can get away now or risk 4,000 against a solid player who I assume is one of the regulars at there NLHE 10/20. Don't see a problem with the fold.

[nicky g]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 I would be more inclined to raise here than to fold as your opponent is going to be pushing back at you with a naked jack way more often than J8. Your flop bet looks like a simple continuation bet with \

[/ QUOTE ]

If hero had bet out and this was villain's raise, I agree. However villain bet out, hero raised and villain reraised. Hero's raise here represents more than a continuation of AA and villain's reraise represents more than a naked jack IMO. It's not a 100% clearcut fold but I think hero's hand is looking pretty weak at this stage.

[DarthIgnurnt]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I know I'm playing above my skill level here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. 5/10 PLO is a nice mix of player types, and you're correct that a few bad players is enough to make a table interesting. If you've built your stack to 4K at a 5/10 table, you're doing something right. Overestimating your opponents capabilities can be just as dangerous as underestimating them.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:
I (4K) have AA88r on the button and raise into the blinds, both call (BB who covers me is very good NLHE player).

J/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif (105)

BB leads for 105, I make it 400, He makes it 1200...


threebet is an easy fold, right?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

What stood out for me was that BB was a good NLHE player ...

JJ has you drawing dead to running Aces. J8 has you drawing to 3 outs. Both of these hands are certainly possible, but does a good NLHE re-pot here, or does he call and hammer you when you fire a second barrel? Either combination has little/no chance of being drawn out on, making it one of few Omaha situations to slowplay. I think a good NLHE player has this instinct, unless you have created the table image of a loose caller.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had the Jack and three big cards, one of them perhaps a suited Ace of clubs. Perhaps even a straight flush draw. Either way, he's only worried about J8, or 88, both of which he has outs to if he matches one of his big cards or straight flush.

With no other context than what you provided, I think you had him beat and drawing fairly thin, and the move is to push.

Just one opinion based on partial information. Right or wrong, it's definitely not an easy fold.

[TheRempel]

Yeah, the reraise definitely makes things more interesting. I would still have to be up against the tightest of tight players to fold to the second raise.

[TheRempel]

The OP indicated that the villain did indeed have JJ. It's a strange play but I guess if I raise a tight player on that flop and he reraises me, I'm going to assume he has 88 on that board.