Anybody ever feel like quitting LHE? [Archive]

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Subfallen

08-08-2005, 02:50 AM

Need a little sanity check here, so bear with me if you will.

I've been playing the most poker of my life the last 1.5 months (say around 600 hands/day, would do more but I also work 40hr/wk.) Before this poker was just an annoying hobby that made me want to kill myself.

But now I'm really trying to learn and stop sucking so much. I spend lots of time here in HUSH, reading StellarWind and rory and sthief and really trying to understand. I read nearly EVERY hand post, seriously. And so far my results are ok, though only over <= 30k hands.

But my psyche is not ok. The more I play, the more disillusioned I become with all my studying and efforts. It's just seems so rare that your typical 5/10 calling station is actually readable in a less obvious sense than, "Well, he could call with x/y/z so I'll value-bet here...well, she's never raised with less than the nuts so I guess I'll fold..."

I guess I just feel like I must be missing something. It's got to the point I only see 3 important skills in short-handed limit hold'em:
- (1) Play tight and aggressive. This means BIG CARDS and POSITION.
- (2) NEVER tilt.
- (3) Don't mail it in post-flop, i.e. DON'T BE STUPID.

But this disgusts me, because none of these things are hard. I feel like my edge (if I am in fact a winning player, f---ing 30k hands) is vanishingly small. I feel sick, especially after 5k hand stretches like: -150BB, +270BB, -120BB, +90BB, -70BB... I've put so much work into this game, and this is where I'm at??

Should I just learn NL? Do I need a skirt? Should I seriously re-consider killing myself?

My Party ID is PaidDaCost if any other 5/10 players care to bash my tilt-happy spewing. Constructively or otherwise.

yanicehand

08-08-2005, 03:01 AM

From the minute I read your title, I knew I would have to give you one gigantic agreement. On everything. And I do.

wackjob

08-08-2005, 03:02 AM

If you don't have the patience for poker, it won't matter what form you are playing. You will experience swings in NL, PL, Limit, everything. Playing 600 hands a day is not FOR FUN, its work. If you don't approach poker with a work-like, grind it out kind of attitude, you probably are playing too much, or shouldn't be playing at all.

Winning online poker(especially limit) is about taking advantage of small edges over your opponents time & time again. Its repititive to the max. Look at PT and see just how many times you've had pocket aces over the course of 10K or 25K hands. Its not even exciting to see AA in the pocket, just another hand that you want to play to extract maximum bets with or fold when you know that fish sucked out on you.

If you cannot get into the kind of mindset for online poker, you will be in real trouble. I have been winning online for over a year now, but I still have swings that really suck. I am just starting to come out of a 5K+ losing swing. For comfort I go back and read the fundamental poker theorem.. and smile at all those times people made BAD calls only to beat me at the river.

Basically if you don't have the right mindset or can't change your current mindset to what it needs to be, I don't think you can be a longterm successful player. Dealing with swings is just a small part of the insanity of online poker, or any poker.

Lmn55d

08-08-2005, 03:05 AM

this is a good post...but I do want to say that I played NL100 6max before switching to limit holdem and the variance/swings in NL were MUCH less.

Chairman Wood

08-08-2005, 03:11 AM

I offer no advice as I am not in a position to really give any. However, all I can tell you is that this game is full of some serious highs and lows and self doubt is a real son of a bitch. I'm in a position where my bankroll is more than sufficent and having a few losing sesssions doesn't really hurt the roll but still really fucks with my head. Today I feel like a million dollars cause I had a +100 BB session last night. Tomorrow, I'll probably go back to uncertainity and later this week when I drop 25 to 125 BB in a session i'll feel like killing myself. Although, i'm not quite used to it all yet, the key thing is to pride yourself on making good decisions. If I'm betting middle pair into some 70/5/.8 guy who I know loves to call down on all streets with even ace or king high and it turns out he called me down with top pair, hey thats okay, I was making a good decision.

yanicehand

08-08-2005, 03:21 AM

also worth mentioning is that for me, a solid rakeback deal makes the longass breakeven runs much more manageable, and gives me a reason to log countless hands and have the small satisfaction that I am earning at least some sort of concrete wage.

wackjob

08-08-2005, 03:30 AM

Don't mention rakeback! I don't know how many hands I played w/o a rakeback deal, but it was well over 100K, and that there, SUCKS!

Monty Cantsin

08-08-2005, 03:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I guess I just feel like I must be missing something. It's got to the point I only see 3 important skills in short-handed limit hold'em:
- (1) Play tight and aggressive. This means BIG CARDS and POSITION.
- (2) NEVER tilt.
- (3) Don't mail it in post-flop, i.e. DON'T BE STUPID.

But this disgusts me, because none of these things are hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think all of these things are pretty hard.

I've been playing casually but seriously for close to two years now and I'm nowhere near where I would like to be. Yeah, it's frustrating to watch other players sail through the limits and roll up giant bank and play higher stakes while I plonk my way up inch by inch.

But I know I'm getting better. It's going to take me a while because I'm not a gifted natural and I'm pretty lazy and I have a lot of other things going on. But I'm definitely aware of constant, significant, incremental improvement in my skills and that's incredibly rewarding.

Is it possible you just want too much too soon?

/mc

Tropex

08-08-2005, 04:49 AM

Same questions went over and over my head yesterday when I reaced -150 BB, but then I started going up again. I've played very intensively for a few months now (and this means VERY) I began playing 5 months ago or so and when I get "Variance struck", I feel like jumping of the balcony. Still in the long run I seem to be going up bit by bit even though it seems i'm taking nothing but bad beats.

And as for your three last questions:
1. Probably yes.
2. Yes.
3. Sure, will get a lot more post mortem attention w/ #2

Jinx

08-08-2005, 04:58 AM

I think one of the more frustrating things is when you win a little, like, string together 3 or 4 +50 BB sessions, and you think great, maybe this poker thing really is going somewhere, and then you hit a giant downswing and suddenly you're making less than minimum wage.

I know I'm a winning player. I have the cash outs to prove it. But I also know I'm nowhere as good as I think I am and sometimes wonder if I'd just make more money bagging groceries or some other crap job like that.

I don't have any advice, since I'm certainly in no position to give it. I think the biggest thing is to never think of yourself as too good. The 3 things you mentioned will make you a winning player, yes. But it won't make you a Bicyclekick or a Nate Tha Great. The biggest pitfall moderate winners like you and me can make is to win some money and suddenly think they're the next poker God.

When I first started playing, if I hit a downswing, I would stop playing, read SSHWBEP again, then go back at it. Now, I'm far more inclined to keep playing, because "I know I'm way better than these [censored] newbies." That's the biggest pitfall of the moderate winner; not bad swings, not "tilting," but thinking they're better than they really are. After my recent ups and down at 6 max, I've decided to go back to square one, and to quit after every 50+ BB downswing and reevaluate every part of my game. And that's the only thing I can do. If I have the talent, I'll eventually get better and if I don't, then I'm going to a good school and hopefully won't need poker in my future.

But back to the main point. Yeah, the 3 things you mentioned are easy, but you're also not as good as you think. Concentrating isn't enough, you need to be good. And you can only get good through study, practice, and downswing after downswing.

joker122

08-08-2005, 05:15 AM

some hands i have with you. i think you played these poorly.

Hand 1:

why the flop 3bet? why the turn bet?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, subfallen 3-bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
subfallen bets, BB calls, Hero raises, subfallen 3-bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
subfallen bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
subfallen checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below: 
subfallen has Jc Ah (high card, ace).
BB has 5s 5c (one pair, fives).
Hero has 9s 8s (high card, king).
Outcome: BB wins 12 BB. 

Hand 2:

bet the flop...

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, subfallen raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, SF checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, SFchecks.

River: (2.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, SF checks.

Final Pot: 2.20 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 6s 6d (two pair, nines and sixes).
SF has 3h Ah (one pair, nines).
Outcome: BB wins 2.20 BB. 

Hand 3:

bet the turn...

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, SB completes, SF raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, SF bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, SF checks.

River: (3 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, SF calls.

Final Pot: 5 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Td Kd (one pair, tens).
SB has 3s Kh (high card, king).
Outcome: BB wins 5 BB. 

certainly not taking a shot at you, just trying to help.

mdeck

08-08-2005, 05:42 AM

I go through similar swings, though not as extreme as you. I hate (shorthanded) limit sometimes too.

I played a couple hundred hands with you a day or two ago. I remember from right when you sat down one table retard who had been tooling around in chat for a while started talking about your name and asking what you "Paid Da Cost" for. I didn't follow the conversation closely, but I remember you patronizing him/giving him attention. In fact, you started talking [censored] to him:

[ QUOTE ]

xxxxxxxx: and by the looks of it you are still paying
PaidDaCost: and you can laught at yourself because you suck at poker

[/ QUOTE ]

I was looking through the hands I played against you, and for the most part playing decently. I have you raising 79s UTG in one situation, and a few other marginal preflop raises. I think when you tilt you tend to not become a maniac, but get the mindset that everyone is bluffing you and go into calldown mode.

I don't claim to know youw own attitude or mindset, but from the short amount of time I played with you it seems as if you take losses personally. While it may not always affect your play, it wouldn't surprise me if this hurts your confidence.

I hope things work out for you.

Side note: I might have contributed to your tilt after I sucked out on you with 23s. I figured you might have been tilting at this point and were going overaggressive with a steal, and turned 2p. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

wheelz

08-08-2005, 05:49 AM

I think all of us have probably had those feelings at one point... most of us are competitive, and no one likes to lose, especially when it's to idiots. But I can't say that it ever made me want to quit limit hold em.

ArturiusX

08-08-2005, 06:02 AM

It looks like you still have plenty to learn.

Lurker4

08-08-2005, 06:10 AM

In short, yes. -475BB in the last 2.5 weeks and counting. Sure, some of it is definitely my fault (my form of tilting is calling down light more frequently when someone plays back at me; I start to think that everyone is a LAG and full of it), but its been absolutely unbearable, to the point where I just want to cashout what I've made and quit forever. But I keep coming back for some reason.

Lurker4

08-08-2005, 06:15 AM

actually, only -425BB if you count owning two friends for 25BB apiece at $.02/$.04 HU on stars /images/graemlins/smile.gif

rory

08-08-2005, 07:06 AM

If you think it is easy to be very patient, and easy to be courageous and strong when you play, and easy to not go on tilt ever, and to come back every day feeling strong and playing strong, and to play well postflop and not only not be stupid but play excellently, especially when you have not been running well, then you are definitely not even remotely close to succeeding at any of those things.

GetThere1Time

08-08-2005, 07:11 AM

I know what you mean. Sometimes you run so bad that you log on and say "Ok, what torture does the beat factory have in store for me today" When I'm feeling defeatist I like to drop down and multitable. Crushing a few low limit games can give you a confidence boost and get you thinking clearer.

Drontier

08-08-2005, 07:55 AM

are the hands that you posted for him that basic? it feels like there are many arguements for playing the hands the way he did.
Hand 1, you may raise too many draws, so he puts u on one trying to 3 bet to knock bb out in the meangtime. folding if a spade hits etc. turn bet of course isnt great, but the hand is decent.
Hand 2, what hand exactly misses this flop that villain can have? every hand has at least some sort of gut with overs. against a calling station with anything, why bet? betting isnt automatic just cuz u raised pf. playing with reads is better. of course he was wrong this time, but would villain have folded 66?
Hand 3, i like this line. he has a pair with a draw. if villain is drawing, hes not afraid, he himself has a draw as well giving villain 1/2 outs. if in fact villain is calling donw with a stronger T, a J, or a weak Q, checking is for a free card. plus by checking as it seems he can induce bluff by a draw on the river. this hand is played very well, no?

Subfallen

08-08-2005, 08:18 AM

Thanks for all the perspective guys.

joker122 -
Those hands are all definitely questionable...hand #1 I probably did think you could be raising with a draw, and was trying to blow BB away, who knows. #2 I disagree with betting the turn, and betting the river is pretty terrible. #3's lack of a continuation was just plain tilt I'm sure.

mdeck -
That guy and I were just having fun...or at least he was after he caught runner-runner quads to break my top set. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif (Can somebody say 250:1 favorite?)

Monty -
Yeah, still those stupid feelings of entitlement. Good point, can't expect everything to come as easily as it does to bicyclekick. Thanks for the thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]
If you think it is easy to be very patient, and easy to be courageous and strong when you play, and easy to not go on tilt ever, and to come back every day feeling strong and playing strong, and to play well postflop and not only not be stupid but play excellently, especially when you have not been running well, then you are definitely not even remotely close to succeeding at any of those things.

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/heart.gif I'm print this out and putting it next to my monitor. So awesome.

Vaftrudner

08-08-2005, 08:39 AM

no [censored]... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Vaftrudner

08-08-2005, 08:40 AM

oh man...

waffle

08-08-2005, 08:58 AM

I feel exactly the same way. I look at the graphs thread and wonder what it is that I'm missing.

I played 40k hands @ 5/10 at 2bb/100, and I felt confident. I'm learning, and there's nowhere to go but up, right?

Then my next 40k hands @ 5/10: 0bb/100. Breakeven. Then I played 30k hands at 3/6: 0.25 bb / 100.

I have a lot to learn, and I'm obviously missing something, but I don't know what it is. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Silverback

08-08-2005, 09:39 AM

How many tables are you playing?

waffle

08-08-2005, 09:45 AM

3 tables 66% of the time, 2 tables 33% of the time

Transference

08-08-2005, 10:18 AM

I have you at 35/25 over 250. Small stretch of hands and it was a month ago so I don't recall the session. Some notable hands:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, SF raises, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SF bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SF bets, CO calls.

River: (5.70 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SF checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

Results in white below: 
SF has 4h 5h (one pair, eights).
CO has Ad 9h (one pair, eights).
Outcome: CO wins 5.70 BB. 

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
SF calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB raises, 1 fold, SF 3-bets, Button folds, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, SF raises, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, SF bets, SB raises, SF calls.

River: (10 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, SF calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 9s As (full house, nines full of aces).
SF has 8c 7c (two pair, nines and eights).
Outcome: SB wins 12 BB.

Subfallen

08-08-2005, 10:55 AM

Yeah, raising with 5-high is over the top. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif At that time I was at like 8 BB/100 over 5k hands, and I clearly overestimate my fold equity when running hot. Thanks for the post Transference. At least maybe you guys can shame some sense into me!

(I have absolutely no explanation for the second hand...who knows.)

sthief09

08-08-2005, 11:07 AM

hands 2 and 3 are fine, and hand 1 isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be

wheelz

08-08-2005, 11:07 AM

I believe it's called tilt

sthief09

08-08-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
From the minute I read your title, I knew I would have to give you one gigantic agreement. On everything. And I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. it's frustrating. we always want to be better than we are and win more than we do. keeping our success in perspective is difficult, as there's always someone to make our accomplishments look small.

all I can really say is it's probably a necessary feeling for someone who wants to get better, and if you don't want to get better, it doesn't matter that you don't feel that way because you probably aren't very good. I guess you could say feeling the way you do is a necessary evil in the process of getting better.

sthief09

08-08-2005, 11:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, still those stupid feelings of entitlement. Good point, can't expect everything to come as easily as it does to bicyclekick. Thanks for the thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

who said it came easy to him?

Subfallen

08-08-2005, 11:22 AM

Yeah, that was silly. Bike has balls taking the shots he's taken, I give him mad props...didn't mean to come off like that.

sthief09

08-08-2005, 11:25 AM

I'm not trying to protect him. I'm just saying if you think it came easy to him you're nuts, just from reading some ofhis posts here. thinking it did will only make you feel shittier

aslowjoe

08-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Maybe you just should play with me. Over 90 hands I have you

W$SF 46 W$SD 84 bb/100 12.50

The only thing that I noticed raising j9s utg 6 handed.

SomethingClever

08-08-2005, 11:45 AM

Ever since I moved to 5/10 back in May (I have since stepped back to 3/6 for psychological purposes), my results have sucked.

I had 120,000 hands of non-sucky poker under my belt before that.

I think I'm probably a little guilty of wanting too much too soon, but I've always been well-bankrolled and I think I've been playing B poker at worst.

Anyway, yeah, I often think about just quitting when I don't get the results I want over an extended period of time.

But then I realize that last month I made $30/hr even while totally sucking in the 3/6 game.

meh.

imported_stealthcow

08-08-2005, 12:29 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Subfallen is BB with ATo.
Stealthcow raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Subfallen calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Subfallen checks, Stealthcow bets, Button calls, SB calls, Subfallen raises, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Subfallen bets...

08-08-2005, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I think I'm probably a little guilty of wanting too much too soon, but I've always been well-bankrolled and I think I've been playing B poker at worst.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. We try to see swings and pot sizes as "big bets" but I think most of us want to win a lot of $ and not a lot of "big bets". This is especially true at the lower limits when we hear tall tales from the mid/high players and dream about the future... that nice car, big plasma screen, apartment or whatever.

I think most of us would play better and improve faster if we stopped thinking about how much we could win at a higher limit (or our current one). Just like we try to ignore the inevitable swings or the actual $ amounts we put into a pot. You can learn to play "good" poker even at a low limit. Maybe a different good than at a higher limit but correct for the limit we are at. Then all of a sudden we will have enough to take the next step without any discomfort. Well... I can hope. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

MrBig30

08-08-2005, 01:42 PM

I am getting frustrated too here. I know I probably shouldnt whine, but 25k hands of breakeven poker right after 10k hands of breakeven poker sucks.

Somewhere I forgot how to play. Or else this is how -not- running good feels like. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

My goal for now is to quit playing when tired or frustrated. Then read King Yao and probably reread SSHE. Hopefully that will get it back on track.

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/8167/aug88mn.jpg

sammy_g

08-08-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I just feel like I must be missing something. It's got to the point I only see 3 important skills in short-handed limit hold'em:
- (1) Play tight and aggressive. This means BIG CARDS and POSITION.
- (2) NEVER tilt.
- (3) Don't mail it in post-flop, i.e. DON'T BE STUPID.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is a lot more to limit poker than this.

[ QUOTE ]
But this disgusts me, because none of these things are hard.

[/ QUOTE ]
Playing your best poker always is really, really hard.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just learn NL?

[/ QUOTE ]
If the swings really bother you that much, NL is an option. It is much less swingy. It is also an interesting game.

If you get better and your win rate goes up, your swings won't be quite so bad at limit. You can also play at a smaller limit where you have a bigger edge for a while if the swings really make you ill.

I feel your pain, though. I've been playing 10/20 recently with a win rate <1BB/100 through 35k hands, and the swings have been sickening.

Good luck. Play well.

Transference

08-08-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the post Transference. At least maybe you guys can shame some sense into me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really intending to shame you, god knows I make some horrible plays, I think sometimes we all ask ourselves what am I missing and it turns out that sometimes its obvious to everyone else. If 2p2 gives ya the occasional reality check its doing a big part of its job.

Grisgra

08-08-2005, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hands 2 and 3 are fine, and hand 1 isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going through the hands waiting for a mistake, and I kept saying to myself "I can see playing it that way" or "I play it that way" or even "I play it that way, but only when I'm playing good."

Hand #1 is obviously a little aggressive, but hell, if BB isn't a calling station then Sub walks away with the win.

Poldi

08-08-2005, 03:27 PM

Why is NL much less swingy? I thought you can win or lose a lot there way faster.
Luck factor reduced because you can protect your hand better and therefore dont get drawn out that much?

joker122

08-08-2005, 03:32 PM

in my opiniom, SF doesn't seem to place his aggression in the right spots.

hand 1 i just can't see a flop 3bet being profitable. can someone explain it to me?

hand 2...why are you trying to steal blinds if you're going to play it this weakly and not bet the flop? you pick up the pot quite often here.

hand 3, i guess it's not bad but i still like a turn bet/free showdown rather than the line he took.

Lmn55d

08-08-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Luck factor reduced because you can protect your hand better and therefore dont get drawn out that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

sammy_g

08-08-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is NL much less swingy? I thought you can win or lose a lot there way faster.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you are a bad player, you will lose a lot faster, that is for sure.

Good NL players have win rates of 10BB/100 or so against soft competition. With such high winrates, it is uncommon to see severe downswings even if you can lose more on any single hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Luck factor reduced because you can protect your hand better and therefore dont get drawn out that much?

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of it is simply that bad players' mistakes are magnified since they get so much worse odds on their money.

MAxx

08-08-2005, 03:55 PM

"Re: Anybody ever feel like quitting LHE?"

No

-MAxx

Ps... It's a Cold World, Baby Girl.

wheelz

08-08-2005, 03:57 PM

NOW the thread is complete