I'm sure I'm one of the many...

Hey everyone. I'm sure I'm just one of the many people who create a post with this similar theme. I'm a somewhat new to poker (it's been about 9 months since I've started playing hold'em online) and after reading this forum for a few weeks now, I've realized what a valuable resource it is. As you would expect, I've come for advice.

I've been a fan of NL SNGs since I've started playing online, mainly the $5 ones. I've played on a few different sites and ignoring my first month where I had no idea what I was doing, I've made a very modest profit, probably slightly above break-even. I've read a few books, all low-limit type books. I've decided to make a change in my play and get into the regular ring games. Lately I've been scared to go beyond the micro-limits, but I figure a conservative approach may be the best place to begin.

I'll get to the point of this post now: First of all, I believe that if you're going to invest time and/or money into ANYTHING in life, you need to make sure you use all the resources available to you. As a newbie in anything, there will usually be a cost incurred at first. What are the "must-have" tools? I've seen the names Poker Office and Poker Tracker thrown around these forums - which is better? Or should I have both? Also, what are the must-read books? The book at the top of my list of books to read right now is Hold 'Em for Advanced Players, which I've heard is one of the must-reads.

I appologize for the nature of this post, because I'm sure they're a dime a dozen on these forums. I would very much appreciate an answer to my questions. Please note, I'm not looking for a link to a beginner's poker website - I'm really looking to equip myself for the next level.

Thanks guys. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[smb394]

Welcome to the forums...

To start at Micro-Limits:
1) Read Small Stakes Hold Em (Ed Miller)...definitely before reading HPFAP
2) re: Pokertracker...if you have the $, definitely do it. If not, it's not a major issue to start
3) Browse these forums (esp. micro-limit (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=micro)) and don't be afraid to post hands you have difficulty with or that you think are unique.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply - I was scared no one was going to bother with replying. A couple follow up questions for you:

1) If I've read Hold 'Em Poker by Sklansky and "Winning Low Limit Hold 'Em" by Lee Jones, is the Miller book necessary?

2) I'm playing .25/.50 right now and playing decent (but of course I have a small sample size). What's a good way to determine when to move up to the next level (.5/1 or even 1/2)?

Thanks a ton. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[smb394]

1) I haven't read Lee Jones' book, so I cannot comment directly on this. And since you've already read the Sklansky book, I'd check out the books forum, as they should know better than I on this one.

2)On moving up: you want to be sure that you are beating the current level over a decent sample size. A lot of moving up is comfort-level. Can you afford/stand to lose 100BB a level up? Will it affect your play?

2a) This is important: at these stakes, the best way to build a bankroll is through collecting bonuses. Do all of the Party/Skins bonuses you can find (would require moving to .50/1 though). These are way +EV to your bottom line.

FWIW, you ask the questions better than most other people joining up here. Run a search of the books forum for more thorough info. on #1, as I am not an expert on SSHE. Good luck.

Thanks for your tips - they will all be put to use.

thing85 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[shadow29]

Ed Miller's book is an ADVANCED book. It should not be someone's first book on HE.

It advocates advanced plays and pushing marginal edges to maximize profit.

It should be read after GSIH or WLLH.

[MicroBob]

don't let the title deceive you.

Small Stakes Holdem is a MUST HAVE.
There really isn't even much comparison between SSHE and WLLHE.

SSHE is significantly more advanced than the Lee Jones book (the 2nd edition was okay...but is a bit basic...and has you playing incorrectly in some points).


SSHE is a MORE IMPORTANT book to you right now than even HEFAP.
In fact, it's not even close.


In fact....after you get finished reading SSHE the next book that you could consider reading is....SSHE!!
...read it again....and then another time.
Seriously.


Other books worth reading are the WLLHE 3rd edition (some improvements over the 2nd edition), Getting Started in Holdem by Ed miller...and Weighing the Odds in HoldEm by King Yao.
Internet Holdem by Matthew Hilger is reasonable as well imo.


You can read HEFAP as well as Theory of Poker too if you like. But there are a lot of concepts in HEFAP that you really don't need to be worrying about yet...particularly at the micro-limits level.
TOP is a worthwhile read though to continue you in the right direction as to your general thinking about the game.


you don't HAVE to have pokertracker. But it's pretty darned helpful.
$55 very well spent.
In fact, it would be a good value at triple the cost.

When you start posting hands and analyzing your play it will be very helpful for you to actually KNOW whether you are a VP-13 guy or a VP-28 guy. Just the VP/PFR pre-flop stats help you keep up with how you're doing compared to others when you're just getting started.

And later you can incorporate a heads-up disply like playerview or gametime+ and have all of your opponents stats right there on the screen.

[Escape]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller's book is an ADVANCED book. It should not be someone's first book on HE.

It advocates advanced plays and pushing marginal edges to maximize profit.

It should be read after GSIH or WLLH.

[/ QUOTE ]

He did read Hold 'Em Poker by Sklansky. Kinda how I did it. I first read Hold'em by Sklansky and the forums and bought SSH after that. I did understand most of the concepts, but wasn't/am not able to apply them correctly at all times. But good enough to win at the 3/6 6max game I believe.

I recommend SSH as well and start clearing some bonusses at .5/1. You'll earn 100bbs each time you clear a bonus which doesn't make a downswing or a bad session suck real hard.

Have fun at the tables

[Hybrid_11]

Im sure im going to get flamed for this but i figured id bear it and make my comment. Since your trying to grasp the concepts of poker and most beginners main problem is being to loose i honestly would consider hellmuths book play poker like the pros. Since it limits basically on playing top notch hands only it makes it pretty easy to play without knowing a lot of concepts that can be confusing at first.
The book barely covers much but the first step is to begin tightening up and well hellmuhts book breaks down the very basics

I ask now Flame away

Thanks for the help guys. Bear in mind that I'm not a complete newbie at this game...I've been playing 1-2 hours a day for the past 9 months. By no means am I an advanced player, but I would've certainly lost a lot of money by now if I didn't have a somewhat adequate grasp of what I was doing.

However...
[ QUOTE ]

When you start posting hands and analyzing your play it will be very helpful for you to actually KNOW whether you are a VP-13 guy or a VP-28 guy.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what that means, haha. I'm sure I have a lot to learn, especially in the area of lingo (since I am new to these forums), but I assume I will pick those up along the way.

Thanks again. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[mdeck]

I'm not going to flame you, but there's no point to reading Hellmuth's book if he's read Winning Low Limit Hold'Em and Hold'Em Poker, he's already covered the basics and I would say is no longer a beginner. From his posts I'm confident he's somewhat tight preflop, and that is on the verge of developing into a strong postflop player. He doesn't need Hellmuth sending him ten steps back /images/graemlins/smile.gif

To the OP: Good luck to you, Pokertracker is an eventual must. I don't have anything else to add, as everyone else pretty much summed it up.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

nice avatar.

[SayGN]

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[timprov]

SSHE is a must, and so is PokerTracker.

Look into affiliate deals, as there are places that will give you pokertracker for free just for signing up to a poker site through them. Check the classifieds or PM me for a recommendation.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
don't let the title deceive you.

Small Stakes Holdem is a MUST HAVE.
There really isn't even much comparison between SSHE and WLLHE.

SSHE is significantly more advanced than the Lee Jones book (the 2nd edition was okay...but is a bit basic...and has you playing incorrectly in some points).


SSHE is a MORE IMPORTANT book to you right now than even HEFAP.
In fact, it's not even close.


In fact....after you get finished reading SSHE the next book that you could consider reading is....SSHE!!
...read it again....and then another time.
Seriously.



[/ QUOTE ]

SSHE is a great book. But a note of caution is due. It is a hard book, the concepts in it are advanced. A number of folks with a buncha hands under their belts have reported blowing off a lot of chips as they tried to figure out how to apply the concepts.


[ QUOTE ]

you don't HAVE to have pokertracker. But it's pretty darned helpful.
$55 very well spent.
In fact, it would be a good value at triple the cost.

When you start posting hands and analyzing your play it will be very helpful for you to actually KNOW whether you are a VP-13 guy or a VP-28 guy. Just the VP/PFR pre-flop stats help you keep up with how you're doing compared to others when you're just getting started.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'll go further and say PokerTracker really is necessary if you're going to play much poker. At some point you have to track your results and analyze your play and nothing will help you do that better. Plus, you simply can't take maximum advantage of these forums without out it given the pretty darn close to universal coverage amoung users of this forum.

VPIP, by the way, is voluntarily put money in the pot, and is one of the many many stats that Pokertracker will track about you and about your opponents. That stat alone might be worth the 55 bucks.


--Zetack

[Grisgra]

a state-of-the-art pattern mapper you might as well just hang it up right now.

[Greg J]

Cool. People who post for the first time thinking they know it all should be directed to this thread as an example of how a new poster should act and request help. It demonstrates the 2p2ers are not just jerks, and that if someone has the courtesy to come request some feedback in a mature way that they not only get good advise, but get treated with respect in kind.

To the OP: welcome to the brds. The advise you have already recieved has been really good, so there is not really much to add. I would just echo the sentiment that you should visit the micro brd and start posting. Also read the Small stakes board, and also any other applicable brd. You seem willing to learn and to take advise, which is somewhat refreshing since so many new posters lately seem to be real jerks and unrepentantly clueless.

[Your Mom]

thing, these boards are your best resources. Post hands, respond to other posts. Ask questions in the mature, polite manner you did in your original post and you will get lots of help and support. Welcome aboard.

[jtr]

You're getting some solid advice here, Thing.

Don't mean to nitpick, but: you say you've played NL SNGs and are now looking to move into "regular ring games". Can I just get you to clarify whether these ring games are limit or NL? Many respondents have been giving you advice that assumes the answer is limit, and I haven't seen you say this.

Wow, I had no idea that posting in the manner by which I did was so uncommon for a newbie of this board. I appreciate the help more than you can believe. This thread (and forum as a whole) has got me thinking about how I'm going to take a very different approach to playing poker online (compared to how I was playing).

jtr, like the others have assumed, I will be playing limit ring games only. Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

[MicroBob]

what the hell? why hasn't anyone responded to this guy? (i'm on vacation so I'm excused for being a little late!!)


[ QUOTE ]
but I found out how to get one for free. If I posted all the information here, people would think I was spamming and I don't want that. However, If you are interested in getting a licensed, legal, and legit copy of Poker tracker for free, send me a PM.

[/ QUOTE ]



YOU are a scum-bag.

Pat puts out a great product for only $55 (easily worth triple the cost...even if it only did one-third of what it does now...seriously!!)
He also works REALLY freaking hard to keep up with the random changes the sites make in order to ensure that all of the sites remain compatible with his product.

And you go behind his back and steal one from him.

Scumbag, scumbag, scumbag!!


Thing85 - You seem like an okay guy. Please don't take advantage of his info on how to get one for free.

You can try it out for free for 1000 hands anyway. In fact, you can continually do 1000 hand free-trials and that's perfectly legit.
But stealing the whole product when it's only $55 just isn't fair to Pat.

Notifying the moderator now and hoping this bozo's post gets deleted.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jtr]

Bob, that was my gut response also, as I greatly value the work Pat has put into PT and wouldn't want to see him cheated. However, looking more closely at the offending post I assume it's one of those affiliate deals where instead of (or in addition to) a signup bonus you also get a fully paid-up copy of PT. So we can be annoyed with the guy for indirect spamming of his affiliate deal, but I don't believe Pat is getting cheated here.

(If I'm wrong then by all means unleash the hounds.)

I don't believe this guy was trying to cheat his way around having to buy PT. I did contact him for further details, and it is in fact an affiliate deal. Spamming or not, I'm glad he pointed it out to me, because I had no idea that option even existed. Please tell me otherwise if it's a bad idea.

[tripdad]

the best advice i ever received on this forumn had to do with bankroll management, something i never thought was of significant importance. the fact is, if your goal is to move up in limits until you can make a full time living from poker, bankroll is the biggest issue IMO.

just starting out in low limits, i would say 300 big bets is where you want to be. for example, to begin playing $2/4 limit, have $1200 in your bankroll. once you get to $1800, move up to $3/6.

once you get to the $5/10's, i would want 500 big bets, simply because you will now be getting thoughts of quitting your regular job, and 300BB is not enough if you depend on poker for a living.

in fact, i am even more conservative, and have enough for 2 levels above what i currently play online.

cheers!