Ace High

[krishanleong]

I can't possibly have played this hand right. Let me know what your line would be. Villian was loose and laggy preflop. No solid reads postflop.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Krishan

[wrto4556]

i would have folded the turn. The way you played it, i dont think you can call on the river.

[tizim]

I call down after the flop checkraise.

I don't like the turn raise. You get more money out of draws, but the possibilities that he will 3-bet a 6, 3-bet semibluff, or stop and go a river blank/scare card outweigh the advantages of raising IMO.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
The way you played it, i dont think you can call on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Your turn raised stopped the bluff, but he fired into you on the river. Since he's loose preflop, I think a 6 has you owned the majority of the time.

I probably call down from the flop raise, but I'm not convinced that's a good line either.

[wrto4556]

calling down isnt bad. We have redraws, overs to a 6, and maybe the best hand against spade/spade.

[dave44]

If your only read is that he's laggy preflop, I'd say that makes him slightly more likely to be laggy postflop so I'd rather just call down than get tricky and raise the turn.

[oreogod]

fold the turn or go into call down mode after the flop.

[psyduck]

I guess you're raising for a free showdown on the turn? I don't understand any other reason.

Calling down costs the same as raising for a free showdown on the turn, and you don't run the risk of paying an extra bet after you raise on the turn and STILL get donkbet on the river.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you're raising for a free showdown on the turn? I don't understand any other reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's to fold 6 outers, I don't think it's a good line here since if we're ahead villain likely has 3 outs if he has something like Ax, and we don't know whether he'd 3 bet with a worse hand, and he might fire again on the river anyway.

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess you're raising for a free showdown on the turn? I don't understand any other reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's to fold 6 outers, I don't think it's a good line here since if we're ahead villain likely has 3 outs if he has something like Ax, and we don't know whether he'd 3 bet with a worse hand, and he might fire again on the river anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly stated. Call the flop, call the turn, decide on the river.

[Stack]

Hero raised in early postion, so villain assumes you'll miss this flop. So he raises this flop with anything.

Call his flop raise, and let him bet into you with a worse hand. When you're behind, you lose less. When you're ahead, you win more since you don't make a 3 to 6 outer fold.

Folding a 6 outer isn't bad, but I don't think you'll achieve that when the turn is a deuce, since he'll have to believe that you have exactly an overpair. I'd raise the turn if it were a K, A, or Q.

[Trix]

As long as you were pretty sure that your turnraise would get you a free showdown, then I dont mind it. If not, then you can just call, call from the turn.

I think you are good more than you need on the river.

[SteveGriff]

If you've got no reads then I'd give your opponent the benefit of the doubt and fold the turn

Steve Griff

any merit to three betting the flop? if we think that plus a turn bet will give us a free showdown, then it's a half bet cheaper than raising the turn, though he's more likely to fold a live 6 outer straightaway to your line. it's alos still fairly likely that we have the best hand and we have a backdoor flush draw so we're not *as* worried about needing a safe turn card.

if I did follow that line, I would 3 bet the flop, bet the turn, and check behind the river. of course then the tough questions I always get wrong are do we fold to the turn c/r or the river donkbet? and I think I answer yes to both for now, I'd love to see some feedback that would support a call in either scenario.

-DMBFan

[Surfbullet]

Posting blind:

I call down once raised on the flop. It's super-ragged so he'll expect it to have missed you, and hopes to push you off overs. I don't like the turn raise because I think he'll be semibluffing something like QT often and it lets him get away without a river bet, but puts yourself in a bad situation when he's got a hand. He's also not folding a weak pair so that doesn't help either.

I think as you played it you can fold to the river donk, best case you split the pot at this point.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

I think you have to fold to a turn c/r or river donk if you take the flop-3bet line. Only complete maniacs pull that with something that doesn't beat A-hi often enough to warrant calling IMO.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
If you've got no reads then I'd give your opponent the benefit of the doubt and fold the turn

Steve Griff

[/ QUOTE ]

Be wary of giving opponents too much credit at the 10/20, especially HU. This is a flop that villain "knows" hero missed, so he will often make moves at the pot.

That being said, there are certain opponents who will only make this play with a made hand because they know you won't fold on such a raggy board - but that requires a read.

Surf

hmm, I guess if it gets us a free showdown and we were good, then it's not really "cheaper" because we were putting in money with the best hand. meh.

[billyjex]

I call down after the flop C/R. It's hard to trust anyone in this game and I think your ace high is going to be good enough to call down here.

He could be pushing many draws ( 5 3, spades) on the flop.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
i would have folded the turn. The way you played it, i dont think you can call on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


weak-tight

[sthief09]

why oh why did you raise the turn

[mscags]

Anyone else 3bet this flop lead the turn and take a free showdown? My usual experience is that when someone pulls a play like this on the flop they're either on a complete bluff, a draw, or has the 6. Three betting the flop will likely put an end to his bluff and he will probably fold the turn. If he is on the draw he will call the turn assuming it is a blank, and you can check behind the river. If he has a 6 than he will slow down anyway for fear of an overpair. Is this a terrible line? It seems to work well at 5-10.

[ISF]

I have seen you post a few of these raise for a free showdown hands, and I really dont understand the rational for them. This is a play that can be usefull vs someone capable of folding a better hand, but has no value vs someone that wont fold a better hand ever, and that will bluff the river weather or not they make their hand. I would call this down 100% of the time vs an unknown, but the turn raise is really bad.

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Posting blind:

I call down once raised on the flop. It's super-ragged so he'll expect it to have missed you, and hopes to push you off overs. I don't like the turn raise because I think he'll be semibluffing something like QT often and it lets him get away without a river bet, but puts yourself in a bad situation when he's got a hand. He's also not folding a weak pair so that doesn't help either.

I think as you played it you can fold to the river donk, best case you split the pot at this point.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

[arkady]

That is some serious spewage krish. That harmless deuce is the worst card to be raising on as absolutely nothing folds, if he is so loose and laggy just call down. The river call is also suspect.

But I have a sneaking suspicion you won this hand anyway.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
why oh why did you raise the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm learning I need to do this less.

Krishan