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View Full Version : Free showdown raise?

krishanleong
08-07-2005, 07:59 PM
Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

Villian is 44/7/1.4/36 over 122. No reads on what a donk bet means.

Krishan
wrto4556
08-07-2005, 08:26 PM
i dont like this one. Your hand doesnt have much showdown value.

I would probably fold the flop.
tizim
08-07-2005, 08:36 PM
The pot's small, and even if you're currently ahead, he's likely a favorite against you or has many scare cards he can use to push you off A-high. I fold the flop.
ctv1116
08-07-2005, 09:46 PM
could someone explain the rationale of this? If you're going for a free showdown, just call twice and it costs you the same. Since you don't plan on value betting the river (i guess unless you hit a non spade ace or jack), there's no point in raising the turn, because you might get 3 bet or donkbet on the river.
wackjob
08-07-2005, 10:27 PM
I make this play alot in B&amp;M. If I'm 3bet on the turn, I fold. If I'm bet into on the river w/o inproving I fold. If I catch on the river, I'm betting. I don't use it alot, but if I think there is a chance the other guy is going to fold to my turn raise, I will do it.
wheelz
08-07-2005, 10:39 PM
Look at the board though, I think the chances of him folding to the turn raise are slim to none
krishanleong
08-07-2005, 11:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
could someone explain the rationale of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm charging a frisky flush draw.

Krishan
baronzeus
08-07-2005, 11:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could someone explain the rationale of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm charging a frisky flush draw.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]


What if the river brings 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif and he bets? I think you have to fold given the action.
7ontheline
08-07-2005, 11:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could someone explain the rationale of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm charging a frisky flush draw.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the only thing you're charging though - he could easily have paired the board alredy and then you're drawing to tainted outs. Also, even if you are ahead at the moment, it's highly likely he has plenty of outs. This is a -EV play, I think, unless you've got a good read.
dave44
08-08-2005, 12:54 AM
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What if the river brings 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif and he bets? I think you have to fold given the action.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how him folding to the worst river card possible should have any bearing on the play.

I played a similar hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=headsup&amp;Number=3070988&amp;For um=,All_Forums,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main= 3070988&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=8347&amp;daterange=&amp;ne werval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=# Post3070988) the other day. I like the merits of the play. You're not trying to get the guy to fold, although he could do so with a weak made hand, but getting value out of what is likely the best hand because the board is so full of draws.
dave44
08-08-2005, 12:56 AM
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i dont like this one. Your hand doesnt have much showdown value.

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His ace high hand has plenty of showdown value heads up.
wrto4556
08-08-2005, 01:00 AM
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[ QUOTE ]
i dont like this one. Your hand doesnt have much showdown value.

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His ace high hand has plenty of showdown value heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

not on this board.
dave44
08-08-2005, 01:00 AM
The rational is that his opponent is very likely to be on a draw given the board. If his draw does not hit he may or may not bet the river. So by raising the turn, you squeeze an extra bet out of a flush draw when it misses and just showdown your ace high on the river when he won't call with his busted draw. If his opponent is aggressive enough to be betting a draw that we're currently ahead of and will allow us to get away with the free showdown, you'll certainly come out ahead by raising the turn rather than just calling down.
dave44
08-08-2005, 01:02 AM
Ax, Kx, Qx of spades don't play the hand like this sometimes?
wrto4556
08-08-2005, 01:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ax, Kx, Qx of spades don't play the hand like this sometimes?

[/ QUOTE ]

You pay off when you are beat because you have little ways to improve. But the times you're ahead, you get drawn out on a [censored] ton.

its not worth it.