interesting 55 hand.. thoughts?

[raptor517]

first day back in over 2 weeks off from sngs.. just 8 tabling 55s to get back into it.. thought this was interesting.

***** Hand History for Game 2495012208 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14634149 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Sunday, August 07, 18:01:56 EDT 2005
Table Table 12430 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Sir_Tu_Yu ( $1265 )
Seat 5: suppo ( $75 )
Seat 6: BILLFILLMAF1 ( $915 )
Seat 8: Djaga_Djaga ( $1915 )
Seat 7: delouyam ( $970 )
Seat 1: Lip_Balm ( $2040 )
Seat 9: furly4469 ( $930 )
Seat 10: SickSkills ( $960 )
Seat 4: mrpebah ( $930 )
Trny:14634149 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Lip_Balm [ Jc As ]
BILLFILLMAF1 folds.
delouyam folds.
>You have options at Table 12379 Table!.
Djaga_Djaga folds.
furly4469 folds.
SickSkills folds.
Lip_Balm raises [85].
Sir_Tu_Yu folds.
mrpebah calls [70].
suppo is all-In [45]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 5d, 6s ]
mrpebah checks.
Lip_Balm checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
>You have options at Table 12380 Table!.
mrpebah bets [150].
Lip_Balm calls [150].
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
mrpebah bets [350].
Lip_Balm folds.

holla

[tigerite]

I'd probably raise the turn.

[johnnybeef]

great, first irie, now you? you need to define your hand on the flop.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
great, first irie, now you? you need to define your hand on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

this hand isnt as basic as u make it to be.. note the all in guy. holla

[gumpzilla]

I like your line, for the most part, though I would ponder calling the river. How big a bet are you planning on calling on the end after calling the turn? If you're going to fold to all bets, I'd prefer either folding or raising on the turn.

[Apathy]

Fold Pf...


JK /images/graemlins/grin.gif


I actually dont dislike your line because people don't often make plays at a protected pot without a very strong hand, but I wouldve still bet the flop and shut down if called.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
note the all in guy

[/ QUOTE ]

color me confused. yes, the sidepot is dry, but this is the 55s, so it is less likely that an opponent would know to not bet into a dry sidepot without a good hand. also, the bb was getting ~6:1 which would make calling with any two correct.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I like your line, for the most part, though I would ponder calling the river. How big a bet are you planning on calling on the end after calling the turn? If you're going to fold to all bets, I'd prefer either folding or raising on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt plan on calling a river bet. holla

[Newt_Buggs]

the all in guy is why I would bet the flop. People turn tight passive once there's a sidepot, especially weaker $55 players. I'de just bet it and hope that he has an A to pay me off with and if not I don't mind taking the pot down here. Even though I prefer betting, checking isn't bad. If I did check, I'm raising the turn and once again hoping that he was betting and A that he will pay me off with. Either that or shut out his king if he caught it.

btw, did you have fun at tournament masters on this account? You seemed to enjoy yourself /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[11t]

Not awful, gotta be curious at what he is betting that river with that you have beat.

I bet 1/2 the pot on the flop though.

[Ryendal]

I don't really understand why you played this hand is this way. I would have fold preflop without any read. Then until the river could hav played it , in the same way and finally called his 350 bet. It could be a bluff since you show some weakness at the turn.

You answered to gumpzilla it wasn't your idea to call at the river.

I'm confused /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hola

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really understand why you played this hand is this way. I would have fold preflop without any read. Then until the river could hav played it , in the same way and finally called his 350 bet. It could be a bluff since you show some weakness at the turn.

You answered to gumpzilla it wasn't your idea to call at the river.

I'm confused /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hola

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, in some instances its tough to describe my thought processes. i autochecked on the flop for some reason.. and hte turn i actually almost just folded. i decided to call and play a river out, with the plan to fold to just about any bet over 100. lemmme see if i can dig up some results..

holla

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
people don't often make plays at a protected pot without a very strong hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this fact, I really don't know what you were trying to accomplish with the flop check rap... Help? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[raptor517]

***** Hand History for Game 2495012208 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14634149 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Sunday, August 07, 18:01:56 EDT 2005
Table Table 12430 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: Sir_Tu_Yu ( $1265 )
Seat 5: suppo ( $75 )
Seat 6: BILLFILLMAF1 ( $915 )
Seat 8: Djaga_Djaga ( $1915 )
Seat 7: delouyam ( $970 )
Seat 1: Lip_Balm ( $2040 )
Seat 9: furly4469 ( $930 )
Seat 10: SickSkills ( $960 )
Seat 4: mrpebah ( $930 )
Trny:14634149 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Lip_Balm [ Jc As ]
BILLFILLMAF1 folds.
delouyam folds.
>You have options at Table 12379 Table!.
Djaga_Djaga folds.
furly4469 folds.
SickSkills folds.
Lip_Balm raises [85].
Sir_Tu_Yu folds.
mrpebah calls [70].
suppo is all-In [45]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 5d, 6s ]
mrpebah checks.
Lip_Balm checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
>You have options at Table 12380 Table!.
mrpebah bets [150].
Lip_Balm calls [150].
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
mrpebah bets [350].
Lip_Balm folds.
mrpebah shows [ 5h, 5c ] three of a kind, fives.
suppo shows [ 7h, Qh ] high card ace.
mrpebah wins 670 chips from side pot #1 with three of a kind, fives.
mrpebah wins 225 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, fives.
suppo finished in ninth place.
suppo has left the table.

the results dont really matter. the point is not the fact that i made a good river fold. the questioning was about the play of the hand. this is definitely NOT the traditional method to play the hand. i will bet that flop probably 90% of the time. my brain flips sometimes and controls my body on its own accord, hence the autocheck. anyways, it worked out. thanks for the input. i played 8 sngs today and am up 10 dollars. what now. holla

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people don't often make plays at a protected pot without a very strong hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this fact, I really don't know what you were trying to accomplish with the flop check rap... Help? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

well, as i said, this isnt my traditional way to play the hand. but.. im not a very traditional person.. sometimes i get tricky. his river bet made me sure i was beat, and i got to find out anyways /images/graemlins/wink.gif

as for the flop check.. it was one of those feelings ya sometimes get where yer body just moves without thought on instinct.. usually works out well for me though. wish it happened more often. holla

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
what now

[/ QUOTE ]

hu pl holdem, i hear your opponenet in the first round of the sttf hu is quite a player

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what now

[/ QUOTE ]

hu pl holdem, i hear your opponenet in the first round of the sttf hu is quite a player

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont care who it is he is in deep dark trouble. (and yes i know its you) holla

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold Pf...JK /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I need a little 'splainin' done. I play low stakes, and the info I've gotten here (for instance, Aelo's guide) tells me that AJos is trouble--surely not worth raisingin MP, right? Does this generalization change at the higher buy-ins? Is that because of the opponents' play or because Raptor is just a badazz?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold Pf...JK /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I need a little 'splainin' done. I play low stakes, and the info I've gotten here (for instance, Aelo's guide) tells me that AJos is trouble--surely not worth raisingin MP, right? Does this generalization change at the higher buy-ins? Is that because of the opponents' play or because Raptor is just a badazz?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're in CO. AJ is not a great hand, but certainly worth raising folded to you in LP, along with a bunch of other hands.

AleoMagus's is a bit weak-tight, and tends to undervalue the power of position. Raising when folded to you allows you to pick up blinds, buy the button, and generally allow you outplay your opponents for cash.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
i played 8 sngs today and am up 10 dollars. what now. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's not quite enough for a real car, but you could get a matchbox car or some Legos to build a car.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
You're in CO. AJ is not a great hand, but certainly worth raising folded to you in LP, along with a bunch of other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I was reading the players out of order. Was thinking he had 5 ppl left to act, not 3.

[SlackerMcFly]

Welcome back, Raptor! BTW, I played 3 of these guys lately and they are all fish. Bwaahaahaa!

[DonButtons]

raptor, you suck. /images/graemlins/wink.gif welcome back

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
raptor, you suck. /images/graemlins/wink.gif welcome back

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Welcome back, Raptor! BTW, I played 3 of these guys lately and they are all fish. Bwaahaahaa!


[/ QUOTE ]

haha, thanks guys, though im not sure if im actually BACK quit yet.. had a sh** ton of fun at the beach, and am workin on registering for classes and moving into a new apt. should be back to playin at least SEMI regularly soon though /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[Irieguy]

I think you must bet the flop.

Folding when you are beat should be quite simple after a flop bet of around 3/4 the pot.

I also would have made a slightly larger raise preflop because Sir Tu Yu is so tight and I'd like to give mrpebah worse odds on a hand that will be protected by the all-in to-be.

Irieguy

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you must bet the flop.

Folding when you are beat should be quite simple after a flop bet of around 3/4 the pot.

I also would have made a slightly larger raise preflop because Sir Tu Yu is so tight and I'd like to give mrpebah worse odds on a hand that will be protected by the all-in to-be.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

WU TANG!! u no me uncle irie, im goofy sometimes. yes standard i bed 5/8 of the pot on the flop. standard i raise to 95. goofy goofy always me. WU TANG!! holla

[HighestCard]

[ QUOTE ]
just 8 tabling 55s to get back into it

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how he thinks 8 tabeling the 55's is a pedestrian effort... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

All bow down to the raptor..

[Messy_Jesse]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I played 3 of these guys lately and they are all fish. Bwaahaahaa!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was in their. Haha, I hope you were talking about someone else, before I have to smack you across the forehead with my bank statement. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Jess

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just 8 tabling 55s to get back into it

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how he thinks 8 tabeling the 55's is a pedestrian effort... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

All bow down to the raptor..

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, i didnt mean it like that.. its just a bit of a drop for me is all.. i played the 11s at one point too.. just pound em out, ull be there in no time. holla

[AA suited]

This is a leak I have, since i would have called his river bet.

HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE BEAT ON THE RIVER?!

What gave it away? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a leak I have, since i would have called his river bet.

HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE BEAT ON THE RIVER?!

What gave it away? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If this isn't an easy muck for you, you are right... it is a leak. Put this hand in the replayer and watch it over and over again. Look at the bet sizes. Look at the stack sizes. Look at position. Watch how the hand developed.

Keep watching it until it is clear that the SB has 2 pair or better. Then let this pattern crystalize in your mind, because you will see it again... except when you see it next time you will underbet the pot on the flop and get away for even fewer chips.

Irieguy

PS- Don't misunderstand this post as to suggest that anytime somebody cold calls your bet into a dry side-pot your top-pair is no good. The details of this hand are important.

[astarck]

Maybe this is a leak I have as well and is contributing to my current downswing. Who knows?

But after reviewing the hand, I think you can put the sb on the following hand ranges.

Preflop: You can put the sb on a large number of hands.
Post-flop: KQ,44-TT I think any ace he would have bet the flop. Also JJ+ (maybe even TT) he probably would have reraised preflop. KJ seems too weak to call a raise here especially since he will have to showdown the hand.
Post-turn: I think you can narrow the range down further into KQ,55-66. I would imagine he is betting the turn with KQ because he feels his king is good, or he has trips and wants to protect them somewhat from the flush draw and he wants to value bet into a dry side pot if that is possible??
River: This is where it gets confusing. His bet here is SCREAMING call. However, there isn't much of a sidepot to bluff at and he will be forced to showdown whatever hand he has if raptor does fold. The final thing about his bet is that he won't check a made hand and I guess it is this that is swaying me to fold this river. I reason he won't check because raptor will likely check behind him since raptor has to showdown his hand as well and likely won't try to bluff at the small side pot.

Am I correct in my hand ranges and reasoning of the villain? Given these hand ranges, a fold seems very plausable, but not easy...at least until the river.

Your post makes it seem like a fold is very easy pre-river yet I cannot see any ease in folding until the river.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
except when you see it next time you will underbet the pot on the flop and get away for even fewer chips.


[/ QUOTE ]

im confused as to how you would lose less chips by betting the flop. how much would you bet on the flop? assume he calls.. u just immediately go into check fold mode? enlighten me master /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Irieguy wrote:
If this isn't an easy muck for you, you are right... it is a leak. Put this hand in the replayer and watch it over and over again. Look at the bet sizes. Look at the stack sizes. Look at position. Watch how the hand developed.

Keep watching it until it is clear that the SB has 2 pair or better. Then let this pattern crystalize in your mind, because you will see it again... except when you see it next time you will underbet the pot on the flop and get away for even fewer chips.

Irieguy

PS- Don't misunderstand this post as to suggest that anytime somebody cold calls your bet into a dry side-pot your top-pair is no good. The details of this hand are important.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is my read:

Preflop- I have no idea what sb could have called with. Even at the $55's, I've seen sb call with AX, or 2 suited connectors.

Turn (main pot= 225, side pot= 30):
Villian bet out 3/4 pot (150 chips). He was either slow playing his Ax or paired up his king. His bet was to let raptor know he has a piece of the board and was big enuf that chasing a flush draw would be incorrect. when raptor called, that told him that raptor also had a piece of the board.

River (main pot= 225, side pot= 330):
Villain bet out 350 chips (~same as side pot). He's saying his hand is strong. I put him on at least tpgk.

but why do you say with that size bet he has at least 2 pair?

raptor- if he only bet 150 on the river, why wouldnt you call?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
raptor- if he only bet 150 on the river, why wouldnt you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i mean yea i can beat A9.. but call and lose 150 more chips? naww.. not worth it. holla

[chopstick]

[ QUOTE ]
the all in guy is why I would bet the flop. People turn tight passive once there's a sidepot, especially weaker $55 players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I love 2+2. I knew that, but I knew it on a gut level. Having someone say it out loud confirms that gut feeling and makes it seem.. I don't know, validated. I swear I learn something every time I come here.

Thank you!