Going out with a bang...

[Mr_J]

I'm pretty frustrated at the moment. I'm burnt out as a result of what's happened to me in the few years. I've been 'gambling for a living' since I left highschool and it's gotten to me. I've been overaggressive in the past and busted twice. And in between long periods of inactivity, only working enough to make money to go out. I really can't do the grind in this frame of mind. Card counting was a grind, online casinos were a grind, and sngs are a grind. I've been taken on a rollercoaster ride so far, and now I've reached the point where I NEED a result. I want to make enough so I can go back to sportsbetting. This never felt like a grind to me, and I was always willing to put in the work. Maybe it was because I just liked sportsbetting, or maybe my mind was in the right place at the time, but isn't now. All I know is that I can't put up with any type of grind and need to make a change quickly.

My aim is to make 20k in the next 30 days. I'm no raptor or ZJ, so this will take me 11-12 hrs a day. I'm ok about putting these hours in, because I realize that as each day passes, I'm one step closer to doing something I enjoy. This will be around 100 sngs a day, 6tabling continuously. I will keep doing this until my brain turns to mush or until I reach my goal.

First 5 days.
I want to make some more $$$ before going back the the $55s. 500 sngs at 15% ROI would be fine. Although I'd usually expect to do better, variance has put me in a conservative frame of mind.

Days 6-15
1000 sngs at the $55s with a 10%+ ROI. Again, I'd expect to do better but conservative is best.

Days 16-30.
Well if I've hitting close to my goals or better, I've easily got enough to have a go at the $109s. It'll probally depends on how well the $55s went. 10% at the $55s and I wouldn't move up, 14%+ and I would.

So another 15 days at the $55s gives me $8k.
If I get to play them at the $109s, hopefully I hit 7% or better for a profit of 11k.

My goals aren't concrete. ~20k, ~100sngs/day, and hopefully in around 30 days. It may take longer, it may not. I may do better or worse than these ROIs (they are quite low for their respective buyins and I'd hope to do quite a bit better, although maybe not at the 109s). Maybe I don't make it 30 days, maybe I don't even make it to 10. But I'm going to go for it anyway.

It might actually be best to do the $22s and $55s until I'm at around 7k, and then spend a couple of days just working on my game (getting ready for the 109s). Would also give me a mid-way break.

I'd be happy just to make 15k, which would be around 10% ROI at the $55s over 2500 sngs. I don't think variance could be so cruel to limit me to much less than that, so provided I put in anything close to the amount of time I aim to, I should be happy at the end of it all.

I was 50/50 about posting this since there's a good chance I won't make it, but hey stranger things have happened. I just know that I'll feel great at the end of it (pressure to make some cash has been lifted), and thinking about how I'd feel might be enough to get me through it.

I'm really not happy with where I'm at. I've wasted alot of time, and something like this would be good for me. Wish me GL, since I'll need all the luck I can get.

[tigerite]

Good luck man. If you go on a heater like the one I've had on the $33s the last two days, you'll do it no sweat.

[Misfire]

Frustrated, burnt out, and impatient.
Sounds like a winning combination to me!

[Mr_J]

"Frustrated, burnt out, and impatient."

Wow, never thought I could be described in 7 words. You left out "good looking".

Anyway I'm starting it tomorrow, I've already been up 12 hrs so I wouldn't have much of a run today, and I wanna start with a good one.

[Apathy]

Have you ever put in these kinds of hours before? They seem crazy I don't think I could that for an entire month, this is WAY more then ZJ or even Fiery Justice plays.

I'd be happy if I play 700 or 800 TOTAL this month, best of luck to you.

[nate_king1]

[ QUOTE ]
online casinos were a grind

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause I'm pretty sure that Online Casinos shuffle cards after every betting. So counting would be useless.


Card counting is very difficult to me. I always get a good count then POWWW shuffle.

GL on your goal.

[nate_king1]

How old are you? Education? Bankroll?

[Mr_J]

"Have you ever put in these kinds of hours before? They seem crazy I don't think I could that for an entire month, this is WAY more then ZJ or even Fiery Justice plays."

I'd think there are players out there putting in 75+ (although they are8 or 12 tabling continuously, = 33%+ greater turnover per hr). It's not that much of a stretch.

"Have you ever put in these kinds of hours before?"

I've put in 2 12hr days before. 30 days like this would be 3000 sngs, which is nearly double the number I've played since I started (jan).

There's a good chance I won't need 3000 sngs (if I last that long). Those ROI figures don't even include rakeback. Or maybe I end up putting in less hrs per day and take 40-45 days? We'll see.

[Mr_J]

Didn't say I counted cards when playing online. B&M for the counting, bonuses for online.

"How old are you? Education? Bankroll?"

22, highschool dropout, $2k.

[nate_king1]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't say I counted cards when playing online. B&M for the counting, bonuses for online.

"How old are you? Education? Bankroll?"

22, highschool dropout, $2k.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important.

[Mr_J]

"Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important."

Not for anything I want to do with my life. Capital is all I need. Education usually leads to working for someone else. Having capital allows you to make more money and to work for yourself.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
"Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important."

Not for anything I want to do with my life. Capital is all I need. Education usually leads to working for someone else. Having capital allows you to make more money and to work for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay, i wasn't going to say anything but this last part is just ridiculous. there is a world of difference between working for someone and working with someone. education gives you the tools you need to work with people. if you try to do everything in life by yourself, you might as well be a career lottery-ticket buyer because it's a million-to-one shot to achieve anything in life without help. i understand that you might not get that now (you're just 22 and you sound like a 15 year old for god's sake), but if you never come to understand that then you are virtually assuring yourself of failure.

that is all i'm going to say because there are really only two possibilities:

1. you are actually the smartest person ever and you know way more than me, in which case i'm just making a fool out of myself anyway
2. you are another hopeless kid who thinks that he is the smartest person ever and will get so mad at what i've been saying that he won't even consider that it might be true

good luck at the school of hard knocks. i have a feeling you're going to need it.

[nate_king1]

Yea I don't agree with ZeeJustin and other young 2+2 dropping out of school to go for a poker career.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I don't agree with ZeeJustin and other young 2+2 dropping out of school to go for a poker career.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am saying that the odds of Mr J being the next ZeeJustin, after he has admittedly played only 1500 tourneys in his career, is not good.

for every ZeeJustin who makes it big because he has a one-in-a-million talent, there are 999,999 who are kidding themselves and setting themselves up for huge disappointment. if Mr J is not one of them, then what i think doesn't matter. but the odds are that he is one of them.

[Mr_J]

You're right. I disagree with everything you say:

there is a world of difference between working for someone and working with someone

Ok I agree here, althought the difference doesn't make that big a difference to me.

education gives you the tools you need to work with people.

Who says you can't develop these skills without education? Education does not necessarily develop these skills.

but if you never come to understand that then you are virtually assuring yourself of failure.

Sure. Nobody can succeed on their own. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

that is all i'm going to say because there are really only two possibilities:

You're obviously wrong, because I'm neither.

Having capital allows you to make more money and to work for yourself.

Here I actually meant "allows me to make more money and to work for myself". I've come across quite a few opportunities where all it takes it capital.

you're just 22 and you sound like a 15 year old for god's sake

No, I'm just very confident I can be successful doing things my way.

You shouldn't be shoving your values down my throat. There are many ways to be successful (financially) in life. I have options that I think suit me and will bring me success, and you have yours. I'd have thought someone posting on a poker forum would have understood.

[Mr_J]

I'm not trying to be ZJ. I don't even want to be ZJ. I'm not trying to make it big in poker. I already have the skills needed in sngs to make 6 figs a year. I'm just trying to make a nice chunk of change so I can put my other skills (outside poker) to work.

[mosdef]

well, you may be right. i'll give you that. but you're the one that said outright that education just sets you up to work for someone else, and you're accusing me of cramming values down your throat.

good luck with your tournaments - i don't feel like i want you to fail to somehow prove my point. given that you post/read here you are likely to do fine. but i am warning you (and again, i don't really expect you to take me too seriously because i'm a stranger) that your comments and tone in your posts above absolutely scream that you are not very patient, or tolerant of things that take time. you said yourself that you NEED (your caps, not mine) to succeed, and your plan is to cram 3000 SNGs into one month after having played 1500 in the last 7 months. this seems a little nuts, and your blanket statement about how useless education just makes it seem more nuts.

like i said, if you go-it-alone in your life you're making a life a lottery. you are correct that i really should have said IMHO before that, because it is my thinking/values. having said that, the forum is supposed to be an idea exchange, not a lecture, so i'm sorry my comments came across like that. i am getting to be too much of a parent /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[nate_king1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea I don't agree with ZeeJustin and other young 2+2 dropping out of school to go for a poker career.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am saying that the odds of Mr J being the next ZeeJustin, after he has admittedly played only 1500 tourneys in his career, is not good.

for every ZeeJustin who makes it big because he has a one-in-a-million talent, there are 999,999 who are kidding themselves and setting themselves up for huge disappointment. if Mr J is not one of them, then what i think doesn't matter. but the odds are that he is one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

To tell you the truth if I was as good as ZeeJustin I would still finish college, so I would always have something to fall back on. I want to be a well rounded person, of intellegence. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
To tell you the truth if I was as good as ZeeJustin I would still finish college, so I would always have something to fall back on. I want to be a well rounded person, of intellegence. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this, too. you can get a lot out of college if you put a lot into it. you can also get nothing out of it if all you put in is your tuition money.

[Mr_J]

"but you're the one that said outright that education just sets you up to work for someone else"

Ok that's a generalization, but it appears true (to me) in most cases. Thing is, I like the way my 'work' is set up, whether it's poker, sports or stocks. It's the same style/enviroment.

but i am warning you (and again, i don't really expect you to take me too seriously because i'm a stranger) that your comments and tone in your posts above absolutely scream that you are not very patient, or tolerant of things that take time.

I've been very patient so far. Sure I've made mistakes, but I have learnt from them and am aiming to give myself the opporunity to do it right this time. It's just that I haven't put in an effort so far this year (sngs) and it's time that I do so.

this seems a little nuts, and your blanket statement about how useless education just makes it seem more nuts.

Sure it's nuts /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I'm not saying education is useless, just not the direction I want to go with my life.

not a lecture, so i'm sorry my comments came across like that.

That's fine. My post no doubts comes across in other ways than I intended.

Just to clear some things up:
- I don't think I'm some wiz kid poker player. Poker is just a way to scrape some cash together. I enough sng skill to do this.
- I have skills outside poker that allow me to put that money to use quite profitably.
- I have other options to fallback on if my future investments don't work.

I'm not dreaming big or anything here. I'm just aware of my opportunities. When I say all I need is capital, I mean that I already have the skill/knowledge to put it to use.

[mosdef]

to continue on (although i'm not sure you want me too) here is basically what was going through my head: you and I both have plans to get to where we want to be. compare:

1. i have a lot of formal education, am in a job i really like, and plan on getting ahead by working hard, taking my training, and hopefully getting promoted every few years.

2. you have no formal education, apparently are not employed, and plan to get ahead by winning 20K playing poker and then presumably entrepreneuring that to success.

now forget for a second that it's you and me (which is a worthwhile thought exercise because we don't know each other) and pretend that it's just two unknown people. now, 99% of the class 1 people are going to go on to achieve their goals, whereas maybe 1% of the class 2 people are going to achieve theirs (of course my %s are made up, but you get my point). so, my question to a random class 2 person is "what is it that you think makes you so special that you're going to be a 1%-er and not one of the failures?". obviously, only you know if you have some special talents to succeed. that's why your statement about how education just turns you into some sort of pawn (which you have semi-retracted) irks me so much. it's exactly the kind of statement that a class 2 person who was doomed to failure would make.

finally, your statement that you can make 6 figures playing poker seems suspect to me if all you done is played 1500 SNGs. that's not really enough to conclude that you are a big-time SNG winner.

[freemoney]

what opportunities are available for a high school dropout that are better than the at least 100k a yr u can make playing SnGs?

[adanthar]

Real estate, until the bubble bursts. Unfortunately that's gonna happen sooner, not later.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea I don't agree with ZeeJustin and other young 2+2 dropping out of school to go for a poker career.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am saying that the odds of Mr J being the next ZeeJustin, after he has admittedly played only 1500 tourneys in his career, is not good.

for every ZeeJustin who makes it big because he has a one-in-a-million talent, there are 999,999 who are kidding themselves and setting themselves up for huge disappointment. if Mr J is not one of them, then what i think doesn't matter. but the odds are that he is one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

To tell you the truth if I was as good as ZeeJustin I would still finish college, so I would always have something to fall back on. I want to be a well rounded person, of intellegence. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

As somebody who is finishing his undergrad degree in a week, I agree here. I think too many pro poker players see college as a facility used only for job training. Truth is, it's an experience and a very fun one.

What I find laughable is when poker players who could make 400-500k a year make fun of college graduates, when many pro athletes, who could be making 2-3 million a year chooe to stay and finish their degree. Clearly education means more than job training to some people.

College does not equal working for the man 100% of the time. Then again, it's not for everyone, and if somebody doesn't think the college experience is worth his time and money, power to him.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
Real estate, until the bubble bursts. Unfortunately that's gonna happen sooner, not later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I think the bubble is only a significant threat on the coast. Go inland and the price of housing tends to fit much more closely to what it should be.

I certainly wouldn't invest in real estate in California, though /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Moonsugar]

[ QUOTE ]
"Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important."

Not for anything I want to do with my life. Capital is all I need. Education usually leads to working for someone else. Having capital allows you to make more money and to work for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, all those statistics showing the huge economic value of a college degree are all lies spread by the man to get you to be his slave.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important."

Not for anything I want to do with my life. Capital is all I need. Education usually leads to working for someone else. Having capital allows you to make more money and to work for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, all those statistics showing the huge economic value of a college degree are all lies spread by the man to get you to be his slave.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, here's the issue at hand. as you say, statistics say that you aren't likely to succeed without an education. but the statistics tell the story of the AVERAGE person without an education. if someone is absolutely convinced that they have the natural talent to be one of the aberrations, then how do you argue with that?

[Mr_J]

The thing is we aren't random people. I admit I think I will succeed where most have failed. I'm used to this though, I was +EV in a casino, at an online casino, sportsbetting and now playing poker. The one I have 'failed' at is sportsbetting, and that was only because I was being too aggressive (ie the problem wasn't finding +EV, just risk management).

finally, your statement that you can make 6 figures playing poker seems suspect to me if all you done is played 1500 SNGs. that's not really enough to conclude that you are a big-time SNG winner.

Fair enough. But then again you're treating me as if I'm a typical SNGer who has played 1500 sngs. I don't think I am:
1. I was beating sngs within at most a couple of days of playing.
2. I got coaching which improved my play and gave me a good idea of where my skill level was.
3. Have read this forum MUCH more than most who have played 1500 sngs (it's actually around 1700-1800, not that it matters). By reading this forum, I mean the quality posts. I'd bet that my understanding of sng theory is better than most players with a similiar amount of experience.

Now I'm not trying to boast or anything. I'd be a decent $55er and that's it.

Back to your comment, making 6 figs playing off sngs is NOT bigtime, it just means you are a good full-timer. A 20%ROI $22 player can make this 8tabling. A decent $55er could do this in just 3hrs a day. Making serious money off sngs is not hard (IMO), it just takes some time and effort.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Back to your comment, making 6 figs playing off sngs is NOT bigtime, it just means you are a good full-timer. A 20%ROI $22 player can make this 8tabling. A decent $55er could do this in just 3hrs a day. Making serious money off sngs is not hard (IMO), it just takes some time and effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, in theory you are right. but the hypothetical players you're talking about would have to play every day, without break, and would need to maintain their ROIs as they went up in tables played, and they would need to not tilt when they hit their inevitable downswing. i just feel that most people wouldn't be able to actually withstand the daily grind and the emotional pressure to pull it off. i especially doubt someone with 1500 sngs under their belt should be confident in their ability to suddenly crank up the amount of time they play and be able to sustain their success indefinitely

[Mr_J]

"f someone is absolutely convinced that they have the natural talent to be one of the aberrations, then how do you argue with that?"

I'm just aware of opportunities that most are not aware of. How many people know you can make $100k+ a year off poker from even lower limits? This isn't even close to the juiciest opportunity.

[Mr_J]

"well, in theory you are right."

Sure. The $22er might be struggling to get there, but there are people on this forum playing the $33s and making $100k+. There would be quite a few making 6 figs at the $55s.

"and would need to maintain their ROIs as they went up in tables played"

20% is VERY doable 8tabling the $22s...

" i just feel that most people wouldn't be able to actually withstand the daily grind and the emotional pressure to pull it off."

Off course not. But you can't keep comparing me or other people here to "most people".

"i especially doubt someone with 1500 sngs under their belt should be confident in their ability to suddenly crank up the amount of time they play and be able to sustain their success indefinitely"

Are you saying that I'm not experienced enough to cope with the longer hours? This isn't a problem at all.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
The one I have 'failed' at is sportsbetting, and that was only because I was being too aggressive

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep this in mind when you're hopped up on no-doz trying to make $20k a month.

[Moonsugar]

Rent:Home prices ratio lowest its ever been
REIT yields lowest they have ever been
Commercial vacancy way above normal
Construction (residential and commercial) at high level
Interest rates expected to rise

[ QUOTE ]
Real estate, until the bubble bursts. Unfortunately that's gonna happen sooner, not later.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think?????

Id be interested to see how you do MrJ. I believe raptor tried to pull this off last month, and it didnt pan out like he'd planned.

He couldn't overcome the variance of poker, can you?

[Misfire]

Just a couple comments.

First, the business about education. Education is incredibly important. Going to a university for that education is not necessarily the right path for everyone. Some of the most successful people I know personally are college dropouts. Because of this, I don't fault anyone who leaves school to seek an opportunity. Anyone who isn't afraid of dicipline, hard work, and a moderate amount of risk can become successful without a degree. That's not to say it's easy by any means. Quite the contrary.

Second the business about these ventures "only" needing capital. Hogwash. Unless you've got about 12-15 times your annual expenses to drop in solid mutual funds, you're dreaming. Successful entrepreneurs launching new ventures--be they college grads or highschool dropouts--work incredibly hard.

--By the way, I don't understand why you have to turn $2K into $20K before you can return to sportsbetting. You seem to enjoy it more, so why not just use the $2K for sportsbetting in the first place?

The third thing is that all your posts display an extreme lack of patience. This is dangerous. You're going to have a downswing. It's going to suck. If you don't have the patience or the bankroll to manage it, you're going to lose everything.

Of those successful dropouts I mentioned, in every single case, without exception, they became very wealthy VERY SLOWLY. They also, without exception, did what they did because they love doing it, not because they wanted to get rich--money was just a side effect of pursuing their passions in life. That's something to seriously consider.

I'm not a pro poker player. By 2+2 standards, I'm not even a very good poker player. I have no way to know how skilled you might be. Regardless, I have a sneaking suspision that you don't have the experience to pull this off. Further, I don't think you have the dicipline or the patience to ever gain that experience.

I hope you prove me wrong.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
But you can't keep comparing me or other people here to "most people".

[/ QUOTE ]

sure i can /images/graemlins/wink.gif. seriously, i meant to convey in one of my earlier posts that when someone makes some statements, i am responding to them as though they are a random person who made those statements. you realize that lots of people who dropped out of high school and thought that they had the special talents to succeed anyway, but actually didn't, would be saying the same things you're saying? i reiterate my skepticism: how can you (or anyone else who thinks the same things as you) be so sure that you're one of the special ones and not just delusional?

[Moonsugar]

You can't argue successfully cause their perception is their reality, right or wrong.

I wish nothing but the best for the OP. And, I don't actually disagree with the capital thing he talked about. It is just a lot easier to get capital if you have an education.

I worked for the man for the past 11 years and was successul at my job. I am fortunate enough to have saved a bunch of money where I don't 'have' to work for many years if I don't 'want' to. However, I don't have a college degree. I consider it a personal failure that I spent my college college 7 years drunk, high and chasing tail instead of working towards my degree. It was an extreme waste of my temporal capital and my parent's financial capital. [Anheuser-Busch, Mexican drug lords and the makers of Trojans did OK though]. I was a disgrace /images/graemlins/frown.gif

If I could do it all over again I would defiantely get my degree, actually I am thinking seriously of going back to college now. And, forget the economic advantages of an education, learning stuff is cool.

Edit: Oh, and to clarify: I never said you weren't likely to succeed without an education. What is 'success' anyway?

[microbet]

Best of luck. Feel free to slip me some hot tips in sportsbetting.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


22, highschool dropout, $2k.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might not be able to hear this any better than I was able to when I was 22 but:

Go back to school! It's the one thing I wish I had done.
I just turned 40. When I was your age I wanted to be a rockstar. At 26 I was in a band that signed a huge contract with a major label click here (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:6ojieae14xh7).

We didn't sell many records but I made enough to not have to work for 5 years. I then went on to head the interactive division of of a large film production company (Stargate, ID4, Godzilla, The Patriot). My job busted with the stock market. I made enough from that job to carry me a few years which leads us to now.

As I'm trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up the thing I keep coming back to is going back to school.

I wish I had done it when I was younger. I could have done it while I was playing in bands. Somehow I thought one precluded the other.

I never went to college so I'd have to start at the beginning. The wisdom i've gained as I've gotten older is "6 years is going to go by regardless of whether or not I've gone to school. I can have a masters at the end of that 6 years or not".

You could have a masters by the time your 28. WOW. You'll build relationships and have experiences in College that will last your whole life. While I had a lot of fun in my early 20's I regret the opportunities I missed by not getting an education.

Gambling and sports betting will always be there for you if you want them. You can always leave College if you don't like it. You have very little to lose by giving it the 'ol college try (badum bum).

The moral of this post is that while I went on to achieve many of the things that I wanted to and made some nice money doing it. I wish had more options right now. I'm hungrier for knowledge now than I was when I was your age.
The thing about life is it doesn't always take exactly where we want to go or where we think we should go.
There's a quote: "Life is what happens to us while we're busy making plans".

Good luck in your endeavors whatever they may be /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mosdef]

success is achieving goals, i would say.

obviously, the "need" of an education to be successful depends on your goals.

[DontPlayScared]

Couple of things:


"Knowledge" gained in school not only comes from memorization of calculus equations nor one's ability to recall the causes of the Russian Revolution. "Success" isn't measured purely by a piece of paper. It's the journey and work ethic necessary to make that journey that most prepares one for life.

Studying for hours to ace a physics test when your friends want you to go out and drink beer... having the self-discipline to finish that 10 page English paper when the girls down the street want to party... this is what leads to success.

No offense, but if playing online poker is just becoming too much work and you didn't have the self-discipline to finish high school, owning a business may very well be out of the question. Routine 60-80 hour work weeks are not at all uncommon for the small business owner.

That 1% figure that mosdef gave earlier is EXTREMELY high. The numbers are much closer to .001% (when we're talking about the type of worldly success you seem to expect).

Hey, I truly hope that things work out for you. I'm not trying to pile on. It's just that I used to be that 22-year-old slacker/pothead/college dropout... lost too much money betting football, basketball, baseball, and (yes, even) hockey, too.

With a great enough sample size, sports betting is always a losing proposition.

Searching for the quick fix truly led me on the road to nowhere. Hard work and all the other annoying grown up stuff is what turned things around for me.

Keep us posted... if you can do it any other way I'll be amazed... and the first to applaud you.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
At 26 I was in a band that signed a huge contract with a major label click here (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:6ojieae14xh7).

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, I saw your band live. I used to be the senior editor of Livewire, the metal rag. I might have even scribbled about you at some point... Don't think I interviewed you however.

[psyduck]

You have a 2K roll and are attempting to make 10 times that in a month..? Why don't you take a look at Raptor's thread where he attempted to make 30K in 30 days at the 215s, and didn't make it? And this is from a 16-tabler who was doing 60 hrs a week for a YEAR, where he made 150K+.

All the same, best of luck. To each his own I guess. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At 26 I was in a band that signed a huge contract with a major label click here (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:6ojieae14xh7).

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, I saw your band live. I used to be the senior editor of Livewire, the metal rag. I might have even scribbled about you at some point... Don't think I interviewed you however.

[/ QUOTE ]
What a small world! I remember Livewire. Nice to meet you /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a 2K roll and are attempting to make 10 times that in a month..? Why don't you take a look at Raptor's thread where he attempted to make 30K in 30 days at the 215s, and didn't make it? And this is from a 16-tabler who was doing 60 hrs a week for a YEAR, where he made 150K+.

All the same, best of luck. To each his own I guess. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

where did you get those made up numbers?!?!?

[45suited]

Okay, I'm 33, so I guess I'm an old man on this forum. As such, I will speak like an old man.

This entire thread is ridiculous. Everybody can see that it is painfully obvious that the OP needs to grow up. Somebody needs to say it.

Here's the bad news: You've pissed away 4 years of your life since you turned 18.

Here's the good news: It's not too late to make up for this. Get a GED and get a job. College is not mandatory but should be considered. You are still very young and can do anything with your life.

Even if you think that you can make a living through gambling, it is obvious that getting a job and some structure in your life will help to give you the self-discipline that you so obviously need.

Poker will always be here for you, as will sportsbetting. Hell, you can even continue with these activities while you are working and getting your GED.

I have all the respect in the world for the Raptor's and ZJ's of the world. But these guys are both gifted AND are willing to put in "the grind" that you are not.

Finally, I want to add that working for "the man" is really not the worst thing in the world. Ever drive around a nice neighborhood and see all the nice houses? Here's a little secret: most of those people are working for the man.

A variance free income (in my case), paid vacation days, health insurance, and retirement plans are really quite nice. Again, the rare, gifted poker player might be able to escape this "torture", but you really shouldn't knock it until you've at least tried it.

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
With a great enough sample size, sports betting is always a losing proposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I don't see why that would be true. I had a great uncle who I'm told made a good living for about 60 years, mostly through sports betting. Any other income was from other gambling.

[FieryJustice]

fwiw, last month I basically played 10 hours a day every day....and now, I am really really burnt out. This month, in the first 8 days, I have played maybe 250 sngs 8 tabling...If you do this, be prepared to HATE poker after about 20 days.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, last month I basically played 10 hours a day every day....and now, I am really really burnt out. This month, in the first 8 days, I have played maybe 250 sngs 8 tabling...If you do this, be prepared to HATE poker after about 20 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many did you get in?

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a 2K roll and are attempting to make 10 times that in a month..? Why don't you take a look at Raptor's thread where he attempted to make 30K in 30 days at the 215s, and didn't make it? And this is from a 434-tabler who was doing 168 hrs a week since he could eat solid food, where he made enough money to send a blackjack dealer's kids though college.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I fixed his post.

[FieryJustice]

somewhere near 2000...i 8 tables for the last 20 days or so...4 up til then.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Real estate, until the bubble bursts. Unfortunately that's gonna happen sooner, not later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I think the bubble is only a significant threat on the coast. Go inland and the price of housing tends to fit much more closely to what it should be.

I certainly wouldn't invest in real estate in California, though /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

This reminds me of those comments that "I could never get Aids" RE is susceptible all over, not just the coast. Although, I am willing to admit, there are certain areas on the east and west coast that will be hurt more than anywhere else.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Real estate, until the bubble bursts. Unfortunately that's gonna happen sooner, not later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I think the bubble is only a significant threat on the coast. Go inland and the price of housing tends to fit much more closely to what it should be.

I certainly wouldn't invest in real estate in California, though /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

This reminds me of those comments that "I could never get Aids" RE is susceptible all over, not just the coast. Although, I am willing to admit, there are certain areas on the east and west coast that will be hurt more than anywhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been following real estate for a number of years now. I live in L.A. and recently sold a house here that I bought in the beginning of 2000. There is no way I CAN get back into real estate here NOR would I want to. It will crash. It would take too long to explain why I think so.

In any case I just bought a house in Austin for 200k. A house that in L.A. would cost me around 600-900k depending on the location.

I agree with the post that states mainly the coasts will be affected by a crash.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I'm 33, so I guess I'm an old man on this forum. As such, I will speak like an old man.

This entire thread is ridiculous. Everybody can see that it is painfully obvious that the OP needs to grow up. Somebody needs to say it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my post here in response to the OP, I opted for the slightly softer approach. Your a tough love kinda guy.
You can lead a horse to water...Youth is wasted on the young...etc, etc, etc...

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Read my post here in response to the OP, I opted for the slightly softer approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that nobody was basically saying that. I just wanted to be a bit more direct. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Your a tough love kinda guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm just gunning for a Moderator's job someday... Look what it did for Citanul. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Mr_J]

"With a great enough sample size, sports betting is always a losing proposition."

I developed a system that tested 443-298 for 59.3% against the spread vs widely available lines. The test was unbiased as it used different data than what was used to form the hypothesis. In actual betting, my system has now gone 257-210 for 55%. It's very unlikely the system is a loser after these results.

I have have sources for many other bets that have shown to be profitable longterm. My MLB source has hit 5%ROI over 2800 picks. My AFL source has hit 13% ROI over 6 seasons. One of my tennis sources has hit 12-13%ROI over 3000+ bets. I could go on and on.

It is possible to profit longterm at sports, you just need the right sources and knowledge.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
"With a great enough sample size, sports betting is always a losing proposition."

I developed a system that tested 443-298 for 59.3% against the spread vs widely available lines. The test was unbiased as it used different data than what was used to form the hypothesis. In actual betting, my system has now gone 257-210 for 55%. It's very unlikely the system is a loser after these results.

I have have sources for many other bets that have shown to be profitable longterm. My MLB source has hit 5%ROI over 2800 picks. My AFL source has hit 13% ROI over 6 seasons. One of my tennis sources has hit 12-13%ROI over 3000+ bets. I could go on and on.

It is possible to profit longterm at sports, you just need the right sources and knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the posts I've read in the sports-betting section, all of them supplement their income with poker, as they readily admit that income from sports betting alone is not enough.

[Mr_J]

"From the posts I've read in the sports-betting section, all of them supplement their income with poker, as they readily admit that income from sports betting alone is not enough."

I doubt many (if any) of them are hardcore sportsbettors.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read my post here in response to the OP, I opted for the slightly softer approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that nobody was basically saying that. I just wanted to be a bit more direct. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Your a tough love kinda guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm just gunning for a Moderator's job someday... Look what it did for Citanul. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


22, highschool dropout, $2k.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should save that $20k to go back to school. School is very much important.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might not be able to hear this any better than I was able to when I was 22 but:

Go back to school! It's the one thing I wish I had done.
I just turned 40. When I was your age I wanted to be a rockstar. At 26 I was in a band that signed a huge contract with a major label click here (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:6ojieae14xh7).

We didn't sell many records but I made enough to not have to work for 5 years. I then went on to head the interactive division of of a large film production company (Stargate, ID4, Godzilla, The Patriot). My job busted with the stock market. I made enough from that job to carry me a few years which leads us to now.

As I'm trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up the thing I keep coming back to is going back to school.

I wish I had done it when I was younger. I could have done it while I was playing in bands. Somehow I thought one precluded the other.

I never went to college so I'd have to start at the beginning. The wisdom i've gained as I've gotten older is "6 years is going to go by regardless of whether or not I've gone to school. I can have a masters at the end of that 6 years or not".

You could have a masters by the time your 28. WOW. You'll build relationships and have experiences in College that will last your whole life. While I had a lot of fun in my early 20's I regret the opportunities I missed by not getting an education.

Gambling and sports betting will always be there for you if you want them. You can always leave College if you don't like it. You have very little to lose by giving it the 'ol college try (badum bum).

The moral of this post is that while I went on to achieve many of the things that I wanted to and made some nice money doing it. I wish had more options right now. I'm hungrier for knowledge now than I was when I was your age.
The thing about life is it doesn't always take exactly where we want to go or where we think we should go.
There's a quote: "Life is what happens to us while we're busy making plans".

Good luck in your endeavors whatever they may be /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post Capt. Really nice to hear the older ones give advice to us younglings :P

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
somewhere near 2000...i 8 tables for the last 20 days or so...4 up til then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played a little bit over 1600 sngs in June... Hated poker so much that I didnt play a lick of poker in July.

Lol... Too much of anything is a bad thing. I might as well have just played 800 sngs both months and been a happier person because of it.

[CaptSensible]

[quote
Nice post Capt. Really nice to hear the older ones give advice to us younglings :P

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[byronkincaid]

Age 22, been making a living by gambling for the past 3 or 4 years. I think that's something to be proud of.

Good luck Mr J.

[Gramps]

What do you mean? I know all these people that have made a ton of money in it the past 5 years, so obviously it's going to continue to go up. Just like this one time, in the late 90s when people were buying Qualcomm stock for $600 something, and Yahoo for $400 something...

Wonder if China & Co. (or China at least with it's possible shift in monetary policy) are going to cut back on buying massive amounts of our debt (which they seem to do regardless of the shitty returns they've been getting on it). That could make things interesting in the housing market with everyone leveraged to the hilt already, dependent on low interest rates for buyers to be able to afford these prices and keep RE prices even close to where they're at...

[Gramps]

What a lot of people fail to take into account in doing these month-long "challenges," is that by playing a ton for a month, you may end up playing quite a bit less for the next 3 months, 6 months, year, etc. - meaning that while you make good $$ for one month, you'll probably end up making less $$ in the future overall. If you view poker as a business, that's bad business.

If you're in school, it's summer break, and you're better off not playing much poker during the school year anyways (or some situation like that), then it's probably fine to risk burnout, but if your goal is to maximize poker income over the long-run, consistent & steady play (with some breaks from time to time) is the way to go.

hes going back to school too.....

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
I developed a system that tested 443-298 for 59.3% against the spread vs widely available lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why in the world do you need $20K from poker?