Lets talk about AK

[SoBeDude]

I think AK is one of the most misplayed hands in MTTs.

People push with it all the time, in bad spots against aggression, often with deep stacks, and then find themselves getting lucky and doubling, or out and crying about how they can't win a coinflip.

So lets talk about a scenario:

Full table. blinds are 100/200 25 ante. you're UTG+1 with 8K. Reasonable/decent player UTG raises to 400 and he has a big stack, say 13K.

What's the right line with AK here? I personally want to reraise, but how much? also remember the whole rest of the table is yet to act.

In the actual hand, I reraised to 900. Button called, SB called, EP called.

Flop was 4 6 8 rainbow. SB checks, EP bets 800. I call. other two fold. Turn is a 2. EP bets 1000, I fold.

opinions appreciated.

-Scott

[Blindcurve]

I'm reraising more preflop. If UTG comes in for 400, I'm raising to 3-4x, depending on how much of my stack this will take and what the sizes are of the stacks behind me. In this case, I'd make it 1200. I want to get heads up with the UTG, if possible.

If a stack behind me were at 3000-4000, AND, the UTG had opened for 3x, I'd raise to a around 1/2 that stack. I don't think I mind getting raised by the short stack all-in as it might fold the UTG player and get me heads up with dead money. The only thing is that min-raise is a little scary.

I guess you called because the EP's bet was small in comparison to the pot? I'm not sure I can just call here. Assuming you have six clean outs, you're 6.7 to 1 to hit on the next card, with no implied odds and the pot is laying you 5.78 to 1, with the possibility of getting reraised behind you, and you don't have anything yet. I think you have to raise, possibly buying the pot or a free look at the turn or fold. And I think a raise overcommits you to the hand, and opens up the possibility of a reraise that you probably can't reasonably call, so I'd lean toward folding.

The fold on the turn is totally necessary.

What do you think?

FOITNOF,

-D.

[tom441lbk]

i probably fold to any flop action /images/graemlins/frown.gif, looks like his flop bet says he isn't scared of your pf reraise and the number of players in the pot, i'd probably say a set or AA, i think alot of people entering the pot in early position with small pp minraise(just my 2 cents though), then he is getting odds to call with a small pp with everyone else getting in

I like your reraise here though, it is trying to isolate the utg raiser(although it didn't work), and with anymore reraising action behind you i'd prob fold immediately

and what do you do when you call the small flop bet, and hit an ace or king on the turn, and he leads out again?

i think that covers all of my vast opinions on AK /images/graemlins/confused.gif


-Tom

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm reraising more preflop. If UTG comes in for 400, I'm raising to 3-4x, depending on how much of my stack this will take and what the sizes are of the stacks behind me. In this case, I'd make it 1200. I want to get heads up with the UTG, if possible.

If a stack behind me were at 3000-4000, AND, the UTG had opened for 3x, I'd raise to a around 1/2 that stack. I don't think I mind getting raised by the short stack all-in as it might fold the UTG player and get me heads up with dead money. The only thing is that min-raise is a little scary.

I guess you called because the EP's bet was small in comparison to the pot? I'm not sure I can just call here. Assuming you have six clean outs, you're 6.7 to 1 to hit on the next card, with no implied odds and the pot is laying you 5.78 to 1, with the possibility of getting reraised behind you, and you don't have anything yet. I think you have to raise, possibly buying the pot or a free look at the turn or fold. And I think a raise overcommits you to the hand, and opens up the possibility of a reraise that you probably can't reasonably call, so I'd lean toward folding.

The fold on the turn is totally necessary.

What do you think?

FOITNOF,

-D.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think getting better than 5-1 on the flop call is OK, given my stack, EP's stack, and the fact the other two have shown no strength yet. IF one of them calls, I'm getting even better odds on my call. If there is a raise I can easily get away.

I agree a raise here overcommits me when I have nothing, but I think I can justify the call with immediate and implied odds.

The fold on the turn is automatic. EP showed 99.

but all-in all, I don't like how I played the hand.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
i probably fold to any flop action /images/graemlins/frown.gif, looks like his flop bet says he isn't scared of your pf reraise and the number of players in the pot, i'd probably say a set or AA, i think alot of people entering the pot in early position with small pp minraise(just my 2 cents though), then he is getting odds to call with a small pp with everyone else getting in

I like your reraise here though, it is trying to isolate the utg raiser(although it didn't work), and with anymore reraising action behind you i'd prob fold immediately

and what do you do when you call the small flop bet, and hit an ace or king on the turn, and he leads out again?

i think that covers all of my vast opinions on AK /images/graemlins/confused.gif


-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Tom,

I think if I spike an A or K on the turn and he bets out, I'm just calling. Its a way-ahead/way-behind situation there, and I'm better off letting him bet at me. I don't want to raise if I'm behind, and I don't want him to fold if I'm ahead.

But if I hit on the turn, he bets and I call, then he checks the river, I'm making a river bet here for sure.

-Scott

[the_main]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if I spike an A or K on the turn and he bets out, I'm just calling. Its a way-ahead/way-behind situation there, and I'm better off letting him bet at me. I don't want to raise if I'm behind, and I don't want him to fold if I'm ahead.

But if I hit on the turn, he bets and I call, then he checks the river, I'm making a river bet here for sure.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

I think youre contradicting yourself a bit, Scott.
If it actually is a way behind/way ahead situation, your river bet is only going to be called(or raised) by a hand that beats you. I think I'd check behind in that situation.

To the OP - AK is my nemisis... I always seem to be leaving the tournaments with it...
Im certainly guilty of playing it very aggressively preflop, often ready to get all my chips in with it. I think the key is to take more flops with it when possible, and get away from it when you miss.

Now if only i could take my own advice....

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably say a set or AA

[/ QUOTE ]

A set is very reasonable. JJ-99 are also possibililites.

If villain has AA/KK however, the original read of "reasonable/decent" was wrong. This would be one of the worst played AA hands of all time.

Preflop, I would raise bigger or call.

If I raised preflop, I would raise or fold the flop, usually folding. If I called preflop, I would fold the flop nearly 100%.

Definitely fold the turn if you get there.

Later,
Che

[bugstud]

I'm not going to reraise that small. Might make it more, like say 1400, or call preflop. I'm actually inclined to call with relative stacks here.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
I think AK is one of the most misplayed hands in MTTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think AK is the THE most misplayed hand, period.

Out of curiosity, how deep in the tournament were you in your example?

I agree i think it is one of the most misplayed hands, but to me it is also one of the hardest to play. I, like most, am guilty of overplaying it preflop and busting out with it.

[Crispy]

I think a problem many of us have is getting all our chips in, or getting a large portion of it in, before the flop. However, this is not without reason for we have been shown time and time again that it is better to reraise with AK or push with AK then just calling. It then just becomes a matter of hitting something on the flop.

[CardSharpCook]

I like the size of your reraise, sobe. No need to create a monster pot with a hand like AK, but you also want to be playing it HU, not with half a dozen limpers. Personally I raise to 1000, because 2.5X his bet seems mathematical, and I like math. I also agree with your play on the flop/turn, and your explanation of what you would do if you hit the turn.

way ahead/way behind. If he is way ahead on the turn (if he hits his ace/king), his opponent is drawing to two or five outs. A raise here induces a fold. If he is way behind, he is probably drawing dead. When his opponent then checks the river, we've learned that he is way ahead. we can now value bet, hoping to be called by a PP 99-KK or a lesser ace or an aggro and oddly played 8X.

CSC

[bruce]

I haven't read replies, but in my opinion there are two ways
to play this hand. Reraise or fold. If UTG is a tight predictable player I fold. Even if your reraise him and
you catch an Ace or King you won't get any action from him.
Assuming he's a typical opponent I will reraise. I hate your reraise amount. I will triple whatever he comes in for. Regardless of what he raised with you gave him a great price to call with any two. Make a bigger reraise.

In general in this spot I will proceed very carefully. The
miniraise, unless I'm against a neophyte, will make me suspicious.

Bruce

[davidross]

I actually find AK easy to play, which isn't to say I have much luck with it. When your stack is small then its an easy push hand. With deep stacks I try and remember that it's an Ace high hand that will only hit the flop 1 time in 3.

Obviously I open raise with it, but I'm careful against a raiser. In your scenario, the UTG position would make me leery. I would either call or raise an amount that would either win me the pot or get me heads up. In my mind though, I'm prepared to fold to a re-raise, so I hesitate to put too many chips in in this spot, with so many to act still. I think I lean towards just calling.

THe way your hand played out I fold on that flop, with a pre-flop raiser betting into me, and 2 to act behind me, I'm done with it. I hate calling then folding to a raise after me.