To everyone that is running terrible for the first time ever......

[johnnybeef]

It can get worse, consider yourself lucky.



here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=302 3105&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limi t=25&Main=3023105&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=2 0162&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=& oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post3023105) is something that i have wrote on the subject

and if you are looking for someone with a little bit of a better reputation.....i present to you irie's classic (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1765434&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

gl players
johnny

[The Yugoslavian]

So, beefy? Doesn't seem like you're really 'bangin bitches,' as your AIM away message says, does it???

Perhaps you could change it to 'whiney little bizznatch.' /images/graemlins/smile.gif

J/k...seriously though, good to finally hear you're on the 'variance is much, much worse than most (if not everyone) realizes.'

The ride is painful and sometimes the worse thing ever. But, you'll be a more complete person after withstanding the vicessitudes of the game and triumphing!

Here's something to get you through the streak/night/lonley 'bangin' bitches' sessions:

http://www.beautyhq.net/caprice_bourette/caprice_bourette024.jpg

Yugoslav

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
'bangin bitches,'

[/ QUOTE ]

my viagra perscription ran out....irie, you there?

Thanks Johnny, reading your post really calmed me down Johnny, I am currently experiencing my first downswing and am really pissed right now. Damn, just got beat real bad while writing the post.... /images/graemlins/mad.gif Anyway, back to it...

[jmgurgeh]

Coincidentally I had just punched up the STT forum to ask about this. Thanks for the post references, they help a lot. Here I was pissed off that my best finish in my lst nine SnGs on Stars was 3, and that was in only one of them (I only play STTs on the side for fun and for learning- mostly I play low limits). I had thought my $250 or so was sufficient for playing the $10+$1s, but now I'm not so sure.

Variance and other results aside though, how do I know that I just don't suck at no limit tournaments? It's certainly something that I know little about compared to regular cash games, especially when very large bets and raises get involved. Are there any particular things that would indicate good play/bad luck vs. bad play?

[SlackerMcFly]

I have also been stricken with "JohnnyBeef Disease" (except in MTTs). Good news is that I only play 4 or so tourneys a day. Busy guy.

But, finishing OOTM in too many of the last 40 or so STTs led me to believe that my memory was poison. That's right. Poison.

Folding T7o from MP then watching the flop come 89J or TT7 (you know the story, things like this happen over and over again in streaks) was causing me to slide into playing marginal hands. This was especially true of early levels where I absolutely knew better than to be involved in any hand.

Hi, I'm Slacker and I forgot to forget.....

I forgot that the cards have no memory and the last hand has no consequence on future hands.

I forgot to play a disciplined, patient game early.

I forgot that the situation (rather than the cards) should play a large part in my decision making.

I forgot to have a realistic expectation of my opponents' range and strength.

I forgot that "chip envy" will destroy your mid-level game.

My memory made me a fish.

So, if you only 2-table or less (like me), learn to fire and forget. If you multi, then you don't have time to dwell on such things so never mind...

Now for the expected persiflage:

That, and be sure to delete all of your hand histories from your hard drive, put on your lucky Sponge-Bob Squarepants boxers, select Orange as your card color and sit in seat #3 always.

Snapped me out of the losing funk and am now on a large (for me) heater!

SlackerMc.Um...uh...I forgot.

[Nottom]

I have to say, reading Irie's post actually made me feel a little better.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I have also been stricken with "JohnnyBeef Disease" (except in MTTs). Good news is that I only play 4 or so tourneys a day. Busy guy.

But, finishing OOTM in too many of the last 40 or so STTs led me to believe that my memory was poison. That's right. Poison.

Folding T7o from MP then watching the flop come 89J or TT7 (you know the story, things like this happen over and over again in streaks) was causing me to slide into playing marginal hands. This was especially true of early levels where I absolutely knew better than to be involved in any hand.

Hi, I'm Slacker and I forgot to forget.....

I forgot that the cards have no memory and the last hand has no consequence on future hands.

I forgot to play a disciplined, patient game early.

I forgot that the situation (rather than the cards) should play a large part in my decision making.

I forgot to have a realistic expectation of my opponents' range and strength.

I forgot that "chip envy" will destroy your mid-level game.

My memory made me a fish.

So, if you only 2-table or less (like me), learn to fire and forget. If you multi, then you don't have time to dwell on such things so never mind...

Now for the expected persiflage:

That, and be sure to delete all of your hand histories from your hard drive, put on your lucky Sponge-Bob Squarepants boxers, select Orange as your card color and sit in seat #3 always.

Snapped me out of the losing funk and am now on a large (for me) heater!

SlackerMc.Um...uh...I forgot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slacker you are a big goof, and i know that you know that....and i know that you know that i know that. But, that was perhaps the most insightful post i have read here since gigabet's "almost there with....."

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say, reading Irie's post actually made me feel a little better.

[/ QUOTE ]

nottom,

you are a good player, and, believe it or not, i have learned a decent amount from you. play the right way and you will get through it....i did (4 or 5 times)

[CaptSensible]

Thank you. Great links. Priceless actually. Very important stuff here.

Out of the last 34 games I've played I've lost 27 of them.
I've lost a little more than 100 bucks. (playing the 11s and three 22s). My bank roll is down about 80 bucks. (ive cashed out about 500 bucks in the last 3 months or so). I only play about 5 to 10 sngs a day.

I haven't been freaking out but losing the last 27 out of 34 games hasn't been thrilling to say the least. My win rate has dropped 1%.

I have experienced much worse downswings than this in the year that I've been playing. I don't really count the first 6 months because I was so ignorant to the game that I shouldnt have even been playing with real money.

After reading MORE books and finding these forums my game has increased tremendously. My win rate increased by almost 11%. My downswings now don't last for more than a few days.

When they do occur I'm not so flustered by them as I have been in the past. In fact I use them to test myself by trying to keep playing a strong game no matter how bad the beats come.

I'm not looking forward to the kind of downswings that are talked about in these posts. Though I hope I can hold myself with grace and dignity when they do occur.

Thanks again for some fantastic links. I'm sure they will help anyone who reads them. Good luck to you!

P.S.

Speaking of Jennifer Harman, I talked with her via email when I first started playing. She told me that she had a year that was so bad she lost just about everything. It was only through a friends sizeable loan that she was able to get back on track.

I also spoke to Howard Lederer on Full Tilt. He stated that he did nothing but lose for his first TWO YEARS. He confirmed that he was actually sleeping on park benches for a spell. Both these stories kind of put things in perspective.

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
and sit in seat #3 always.


[/ QUOTE ]

Seat 3? ONLY if the tip of your tinfoil hat is facing an easterly direction. East is bad Chi. I will only point my hat North or West which means I'm relegated to seats 1, 4, 7, or 9.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Here's something to get you through the streak/night/lonley 'bangin' bitches' sessions:

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll be happy to know that she actually does offer poker instruction (http://www.paradisepoker.com/poker_tips/poker_coach.html).

[SlackerMcFly]

[ QUOTE ]
But, that was perhaps the most insightful post i have read here since gigabet's "almost there with....."


[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/cool.gifYou have been elevated to my 2nd favorite poster (Yugo is first by virtue of his recent discovery of how to include pictures).

Go JohnnyBeeferoonie!

[Irieguy]

Thanks, Beef.

I really believe that this type of stuff needs to be continuously discussed. I've been playing poker for 15 years or so, but only recently have come to understand what's possible for a winning player.

I remember reading Malmuth's simulation several years ago where he showed that a MTT player who is twice as good as everybody else in the field could play every day and lose for 2 years. I remember thinking that I would quit the game long before that happened.

But now with the number of hands and tournaments that it's possible to play online, most pros are going to witness/experience the equivalent of 2 years of live losing play. This would be like an online MTT player who loses for a month or two... which is exceedingly common.

We're starting to get a pretty good feel for what's "normal" for a SNG player over the past few months. I remember last August you could author a post where you suggested that you'd know your true ITM% after a few hundred SNGs and your true ROI after 500 or 1000 and nobody would disagree with you. If somebody posted StupidSucker's numbers for his last 500 back then... 100% of the responses would tell him that he's horrible and cannot possibly be a winning player.

I had a 30 buy-in drop yesterday and it barely bothered me. I "let it flow" a bit... but I was fine by the start of my session this morning, and I already turned it back to the black even though I was mentally prepared for it to take a week or more to recover.

The mental game is critical, and one should not spend a large portion of their poker life feeling like a victim of bad luck.

Irieguy

[GrekeHaus]

Why does it seem like everybody on this board is going through a downswing simultaneously? Where's the money going? Are the fish just cleaning house right now?

On a side note, I've taken up screaming as a new hobby. Every time I lose a big hand, I let out a shrill screech which should make Yugo glad he's not living with me anymore. It seems to be a solid new hobby, and is better and less illegal than my previous cat-hatcheting method of coping.

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the money going?

[/ QUOTE ]

PartyProker's gross drop is almost $4,000,000 per day.
That's where "some" of it goes
/images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[pwr]

I'm drunk

[SlackerMcFly]

"and sit in seat #3 always"
[ QUOTE ]
Seat 3? ONLY if the tip of your tinfoil hat is facing an easterly direction

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there's your problem. Your hat must be bowl-shaped with no points or angles. Otherwise the Chi won't resonate at the correct frequency to optimize focal clarity in odd numbers chairs. Click Here for detailed instructions (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)

Now fix your hat, go forth and prosper.
SlackerMcGoof

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
"and sit in seat #3 always"
[ QUOTE ]
Seat 3? ONLY if the tip of your tinfoil hat is facing an easterly direction

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there's your problem. Your hat must be bowl-shaped with no points or angles. Otherwise the Chi won't resonate at the correct frequency to optimize focal clarity in odd numbers chairs. Click Here for detailed instructions (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)

Now fix your hat, go forth and prosper.
SlackerMcGoof

[/ QUOTE ]

You Have Way Too Much Time on Your Hands /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif

When JohnnieBeef is your 2nd favorite poster you may want to reval things, a Bit /images/graemlins/frown.gif

SkipperMcBob
who thinks that Beef is his 3rd favorite poster

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember reading Malmuth's simulation several years ago where he showed that a MTT player who is twice as good as everybody else in the field could play every day and lose for 2 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irie, isn't it like apples and oranges comparing MTT variance to SNG variance?

I'm not really arguing with your general point, but also I think that often people justify poor play / tilt by the comfort of it being "just variance" without doing an honest examination of their own play.