View Full Version : mods - can you start locking the "can i use a fake id" idiots?
seriously it gets so [censored] obnoxious to see the same question asked over and over again....especially since the ANSWERS ARE ALWAYS THE SAME
you guys should type up some really short and generic response to post whenever the next moron that doesnt know how to use the search button comes in with his insightful question about how he swears he looks 23, but is only 17 and its "like totally unfair that they have to obey the law...man, adults suck"
"Dont bother going into a casino without at least a reasonable quality fake id and looking older than 17, because although you will *probably* almost never get carded, the punishment if you are caught is typically pretty stiff and not worth the risk"
mmbt0ne
08-06-2005, 04:17 PM
Make a nice little post about like this, but without the tone, and with a little more information (like what the punishments are/can be) and I bet JBB will put it in the FAQ.
DoubleClutch
08-06-2005, 04:17 PM
Another request for the mods: Lock the threads in which the OP does no more than demand tasks for mods.
Chipr777
08-06-2005, 07:27 PM
Besides the wording of your post I'm all for it. The day I help anyone underage circumvent the law is the day I sit back and let Al do his thing.
Photoc
08-06-2005, 08:32 PM
Lock the tipping threads too! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
AKQJ10
08-06-2005, 08:52 PM
This is part of why I'm so enthused about what I see as the potential of a wiki. At least then we can edit a consensus response that says, "Here are the positives of (tipping, trying to enter a casino underage, B&M vs. online, whatever...). Here are the negatives. Make your own decision. Good luck."
That's probably a bit idealistic, because it's hard to build a consensus. But i'd still love to build a starting point where all the major points of view are represented, and future discussions feel like they're making progress instead of going around in circles.
Anyway, that's why i'm so caught up in this vision of something that may or may not come to pass. I don't know if we want to have a wiki page on "Fake ID", but if we do no one has to get permission from a moderator. Just go do it, and it'll be there, and you can refer back to it whenever you want.
Just my .02.
Al_Capone_Junior
08-06-2005, 11:20 PM
Give me thread locking powers with the "I'll kick you in the nuts!!!" thread locking icon!!
al
p.s. can I also have "you're a troll, you're therefore banned for life" icon? /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Al_Capone_Junior
08-06-2005, 11:29 PM
For JBB - since I already wrote most of the FAQ post anyway, how about this for an addition...
Underage players and fake ID: Basically, don't do it. Although casinos don't card young players that often, they might, and you're much better off with NO ID than with a fake one. If you have NO ID, you'll probably be immediately asked to leave, and won't be allowed back until you can produce ID. They'll be checking it closely next time you show up, that's for sure. However, if you produce a false ID and get caught, you could be in for a world of trouble. The exact laws vary from place to place, but rest assured that no place is going to be very nice about this situation. All places will confiscate your ID, and you could suffer anything from being banned to being taken downtown in a squad car facing hefty charges.
Basically, my advice to underage readers is this - if you're already posting on 2+2, obviously you have access to the internet, so PLAY ONLINE. Don't mess with casinos, they don't have much of a sense of humor, and you're in for a world of hurt if your "fake ID plan" doesn't work out like you thought it would. Online casinos will probably be equally unpleasant if you're caught gambling underage there; your account will almost certainly be frozen. Best advice, DON'T GAMBLE UNDERAGE.
Anyone with comments / edits please do elaborate in great detail....
JBB, if you think it's "ready" then add it to the FAQ.
al
Al_Capone_Junior
08-06-2005, 11:35 PM
No offense double clutch, but you only have 24 posts, you can't ask the mods for SQUAT yet. /images/graemlins/grin.gif First you have to build some kind of a reputation, maybe get your own catch phrase (i.e. I'll kick you in the NUTS) or whatever. Keep trying tho kid.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif
al
Al_Capone_Junior
08-06-2005, 11:38 PM
Thanks for mentioning my name, I just love seeing my own name in print! /images/graemlins/grin.gif You get one "get out of getting kicked in the nuts for free" card!
al
Mat Sklansky
08-06-2005, 11:41 PM
These posts should not only be locked or deleted, but offending posters should be banned for asking about/ encouraging illegal behavior. I'm serious about this, silly as it may sound. Please use the notify moderator icon when you see such posts.
Thank you,
Mat
Mat Sklansky
08-06-2005, 11:42 PM
I don't want any illegal behavior encouraged, including someone under 18 playing online. The first paragraph you wrote is appropriate.
Luv2DriveTT
08-06-2005, 11:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
These posts should not only be locked or deleted, but offending posters should be banned for asking about/ encouraging illegal behavior. I'm serious about this, silly as it may sound. Please use the notify moderator icon when you see such posts.
Thank you,
Mat
[/ QUOTE ]
Matt:
Although I agree with you (I always felt this was a topic that shouldn't be discussed here, its not in the best interest of 2+2), please allow the mods to use discretion with some of the long time posters who may not be immediately aware of the rule change. Good contributors should not be penalized for their mistakes before finding out about the rule changes. Instead I feel the offending post by a long time contributor should be deleted.
just my two cents, thanks for listening.
TT /images/graemlins/club.gif
Mat Sklansky
08-07-2005, 12:06 AM
Everyone should know by now that the majority of bannings are overturned. Moderators do have discretion, but if someone pulls the trigger too quickly, an explanation almost always leads to reinstatement. This is true of every forum and every rule. So noone needs to worry.
Mat
sully4321
08-07-2005, 12:46 AM
or just make sure you lose money to the casino, then they'd never ID you
BottlesOf
08-07-2005, 12:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
These posts should not only be locked or deleted, but offending posters should be banned for asking about/ encouraging illegal behavior. I'm serious about this, silly as it may sound. Please use the notify moderator icon when you see such posts.
Thank you,
Mat
[/ QUOTE ]
This will be the policy I'm now enforcing. Bannings will be reserved for the most serious offenses/offenders.
[ QUOTE ]
These posts should not only be locked or deleted, but offending posters should be banned for asking about/ encouraging illegal behavior. I'm serious about this, silly as it may sound. Please use the notify moderator icon when you see such posts.
Thank you,
Mat
[/ QUOTE ]
thank god...i genuinely hope this rule is enforced, it gets REALLY annoying seeing the same thread over and over again, and posters pointing out casinos that are lax in id checking are ONLY MAKING THE PROBLEM OF IRRESPONSIBLE KIDS IN CASINOS WORSE FOR EVERYONE ELSE
RydenStoompala
08-07-2005, 08:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
how about this for an addition...
[/ QUOTE ]
Lemme help, Al...
(you'll have to bury this in the middle of your more professional response)
Recent changes to Nevada law allow casinos who catch underage gamblers to process them under section 42 of the state juvenile act. Punishment can be inflicted without casino security being required to notify the local police of their actions. Underage gamblers are handcuffed, jammed inside a small wooden crate and dragged through the desert behind a modified dune buggy. Once unconscious, the moron ('scuse me, underage person)is staked out in the sand while lizards gnaw on his/her eyes for 24 hours. The casino security people then hose the person down, dress them in a plastic bag imprinted with the words LOOKING FOR LUCK IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES and drop them off at the Vegas tour bus compound.
or..we can just go with Matt and get the posts deleted as soon as we spot them...but that's not a ton of fun.
Al_Capone_Junior
08-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Ryden's fantastic post gets him a get out of getting kicked in the nuts free card!
al
PhatCasino
08-07-2005, 01:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ryden's fantastic post gets him a get out of getting kicked in the nuts free card!
al
[/ QUOTE ]
seems like al has had one too many losing sessions or maybe too many stiffs at tipping.. what a mean moody dude.. take-it-easy bro /images/graemlins/spade.gif anyone agree with me here? the brotha is way too trigger happy and needs to chill out
RoundTower
08-07-2005, 01:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want any illegal behavior encouraged, including someone under 18 playing online. The first paragraph you wrote is appropriate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this necessarily illegal? I know the poker sites don't like it. Is online poker legal at all in the US? Everywhere in the US?
megabit
08-07-2005, 01:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ryden's fantastic post gets him a get out of getting kicked in the nuts free card!
al
[/ QUOTE ]
seems like al has had one too many losing sessions or maybe too many stiffs at tipping.. what a mean moody dude.. take-it-easy bro /images/graemlins/spade.gif anyone agree with me here? the brotha is way too trigger happy and needs to chill out
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Al is going to kick you in the NUTS! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't worry Al's bark is worse than his bite... err kick.
Quicksilvre
08-07-2005, 03:02 PM
The US Justice Department has made it quite clear that they will not prosecute individual Internet poker players. If they did, Moneymaker and Raymer would both have been charged with violating the Wire Act, which they were not. Nonetheless, to answer your question: no, Internet gambling is not legal in any state, town, village or hamlet in the US (though North Dakota may change that).
Since most of these sites seem to be based in countries where the gambling age is 18, I would place the de facto minimum age for Internet gambling at 18. I don't think that can be established hard and fast, but I'd wait until then to stay on the leeward side of the law. (I'm 17, waiting for my 18th at the earliest, to start.)
tonypaladino
08-07-2005, 04:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ryden's fantastic post gets him a get out of getting kicked in the nuts free card!
al
[/ QUOTE ]
seems like al has had one too many losing sessions or maybe too many stiffs at tipping.. what a mean moody dude.. take-it-easy bro /images/graemlins/spade.gif anyone agree with me here? the brotha is way too trigger happy and needs to chill out
[/ QUOTE ]
No
James Boston
08-07-2005, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
please allow the mods to use discretion with some of the long time posters who may not be immediately aware of the rule change. Good contributors should not be penalized for their mistakes before finding out about the rule changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you're talking about "Good contributors" and "long time posters" who respond to the question with advice or a story from their own underage days, then I agree. But does 2+2 have any "good," "long time," 16 year old posters?
I would go a step further than the OP, and suggest that any announcement that you are under age, as benign as it may be, should be deleted. It's certainly up to Mat, but it doesn't, to me, reflect well on the site that adults are discussing with minors on a gambling website in general.
mostsmooth
08-07-2005, 04:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Lock the tipping threads too! /images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
and the "whats the best song ever", "whats the best song this week", "whats the best song today", "whats the best song in your ipod","whats the best song lyrics" threads. and when thats done, do the same for the movie threads
[ QUOTE ]
But does 2+2 have any "good," "long time," 16 year old posters?
[/ QUOTE ]
I turned 20 in April. I'll leave it up to you to extrapolate whatver you like from taht knowledge.
[ QUOTE ]
any announcement that you are under age, as benign as it may be, should be deleted.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is going to determine who's 'underaged'? You know not everyone lives in a place with the same gambling age?
James Boston
08-07-2005, 08:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What is going to determine who's 'underaged'? You know not everyone lives in a place with the same gambling age?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know. But in the US, I know of no place or internet site that knowingly allows anyone under 18 to play. Posts that discuss anyone under 21 getting into a 21+ casino should be deleted, and posts discussing minors gambling should be deleted. These 2 examples are pretty clear cut, as they advocate breaking the law. My point was that benign posts where the poster mentions being under 18 (which I've seen) should probably also be deleted. It doesn't apply to this specific forum, as much as the site as a whole. I just don't think it looks good. I remember a poster in the Stock Market forum say that he was 14. His post wasn't about breaking any laws, but why is a 14 year old on a gambling website, albeit the Stock Market forum? I see no problem with reading and posting as long as you keep your age hidden. It's not my site, but if it was I wouldn't want that.
[ QUOTE ]
My point was that benign posts where the poster mentions being under 18 (which I've seen) should probably also be deleted
[/ QUOTE ]
I understood what you were saying. My question is why they should be deleted if the poster is from somewhere that permits 17 year olds to gamble. Should they still be deleted? If so, what is the rationale?
[ QUOTE ]
but why is a 14 year old on a gambling website
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe he saw poker on TV and stumbled across 2+2? Maybe he is actually 55 and wanted to mess with people? Maybe he's from an area where 14 year olds can legally gamble? Maybe he has no idea it's a gambling website and found the stock market forum on its own? Maybe he finds the mathematical approach to the game mentally stimulating? Who knows?
why are you looking for an argument where there isnt one?
the mods have stated that they dont want underage posters on this forum, so why even bother trying to fight?
if you are insightful and contribute....then it wont matter what age you are, but the second someone makes posts indicating that they are under age or what help engaging in something illegal (under 21 in a 21+ casino, or gambling online before are 18) then THEIR ASS SHOULD BE KICKED OUT THE [censored] DOOR IMMEDIATELY
there should be no argument on this whatsoever, the people that run this have already made it clear this is how they feel, and we all should respect that.
[ QUOTE ]
why are you looking for an argument where there isnt one?
the mods have stated that they dont want underage posters on this forum, so why even bother trying to fight?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to fight anything. This is a discussion board, why is everyone so opposed to discussing things?
I was just asking what the decision would be in grey areas that I didn't feel were already covered. I think you need to relax a little.
Al_Capone_Junior
08-08-2005, 01:00 PM
Yo fox, settle down. You're a stranger with 13 posts, several of which are on this thread. You haven't earned the right to be so outraged yet. No offense hoss, but this needs to be said here.
You guys are splitting hairs anyway here. I suggest the mods just force you to be of a certain age to post here in the first place, and if it's found out you're not of age, you're gone.
Besides, we shouldn't be looking to get rid of anyone who posts thoughtful and worthwhile posts, only trolls who have nothing useful to contribute.
al
GuyOnTilt
08-08-2005, 01:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I suggest the mods just force you to be of a certain age to post here in the first place, and if it's found out you're not of age, you're gone.
[/ QUOTE ]
If by "a certain age" you mean 21, that would be really dumb. I know I'm not the only established poster who started posting <21, and I can think of right off the top of my head have made a significant positive impact on these boards.
FWIW, I started posting consistently here very shortly after turning 19 and just turned "of legal age" a couple months ago. Should I not have been allowed to make hand posts where I played in 21+ casinos? I'm sure I made dozens of them. Would 2+2 have been a better or worse place without them? Should a policy be in effect that would've had me banned for my strat hand posts, were it in effect a year ago?
GoT
James Boston
08-08-2005, 02:27 PM
18-21 is grey area. As far as I know, this age range is in the clear online. They just shouldn't be advocating illegally playing in casinos. Sure, your contributions to 2+2 have been great, but you didn't (to my knowledge) emphasize that you were doing anything illegal. If you were illegally in a cardroom while underage, and want to post a hand, just omit the illegal stuff. As for anyone under 18, if they enjoy the discussions, and are willing to participate without making it known that they are under 18, I guess I'm OK with that. 2+2 is a business with liabilities, just like any other. If you are flying under the radar, you shouldn't make it known anymore than you would announce in a cardroom, "I'm only 17."
To Evan, I know of no place (online or B&M) that allows anyone under 18 to gamble. Unless such a place can be shown to exist, there isn't really an arguement for "what if it's legal where they're from."
Al_Capone_Junior
08-09-2005, 01:14 PM
21 would be too high of an age. 18 might be more reasonable. This would be up to youz.
al
Kurwood Derby
08-09-2005, 02:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But does 2+2 have any "good," "long time," 16 year old posters?
[/ QUOTE ]
I turned 20 in April. I'll leave it up to you to extrapolate whatver you like from taht knowledge.
[ QUOTE ]
any announcement that you are under age, as benign as it may be, should be deleted.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is going to determine who's 'underaged'? You know not everyone lives in a place with the same gambling age?
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.weirdlittlebiscuit.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/b3ta/donkey.jpg
ddss6_99
08-09-2005, 02:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
thank god...i genuinely hope this rule is enforced, it gets REALLY annoying seeing the same thread over and over again, and posters pointing out casinos that are lax in id checking are ONLY MAKING THE PROBLEM OF IRRESPONSIBLE KIDS IN CASINOS WORSE FOR EVERYONE ELSE
[/ QUOTE ]
I take it some kid you suspected to be underage hit his two outer on the river to take a big pot from you, thus making everyone under the age of 21 irresponsible?
PITTM
08-09-2005, 02:53 PM
i say ban evan for being under-height.
rj
PITTM
08-09-2005, 02:57 PM
your name is foxwoods drunk, your location says "being obnoxious". yet you are adamant in your case that i was much more mature on october 8, 2003 then i was on october 7, 2003. you are the authority on responsibility. thanks for clarifying for everyone.
rj
csuf_gambler
08-09-2005, 03:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
These posts should not only be locked or deleted, but offending posters should be banned for asking about/ encouraging illegal behavior. I'm serious about this, silly as it may sound. Please use the notify moderator icon when you see such posts.
Thank you,
Mat
[/ QUOTE ]
i respectfully disagree with this policy. it is absurdly rediclious that if i drive 50 miles south, i am forbidden to play poker but if i drive 70 miles east, i am of legal age. that is why guys like us need fake id's. and what better place to discuss underage tactics and stratgies then an online poker forum that is devoted to brick and mortar casinos?
phil ivey openly admits that he was hitting up AC at the age of 17 with a fake id, should he be banned or forbidden from 2+2 if he ever decides to join?
James Boston
08-10-2005, 12:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
it is absurdly rediclious that if i drive 50 miles south, i am forbidden to play poker but if i drive 70 miles east, i am of legal age.
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt a thread on what the legal gambling age should be would get deleted. Your opinion of what is and isn't "absurdly rediculous" has nothing to do with what is and isn't legal.
[ QUOTE ]
that is why guys like us need fake id's. and what better place to discuss underage tactics and stratgies then an online poker forum that is devoted to brick and mortar casinos?
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't "need" fake ID's. You "want" to play in a casino, and therefore are breaking the law. This site should not be supporting that.
[ QUOTE ]
phil ivey openly admits that he was hitting up AC at the age of 17 with a fake id, should he be banned or forbidden from 2+2 if he ever decides to join?
[/ QUOTE ]
No. I drank beer before I was 21, but I'm not on this site telling minors how to make fake ID's and get beer. As long as Ivey isn't encouraging illegal behavior, what he's done in the past is not an issue.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
phil ivey openly admits that he was hitting up AC at the age of 17 with a fake id, should he be banned or forbidden from 2+2 if he ever decides to join?
[/ QUOTE ]
No. I drank beer before I was 21, but I'm not on this site telling minors how to make fake ID's and get beer. As long as Ivey isn't encouraging illegal behavior, what he's done in the past is not an issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
bingo.
kt421
08-10-2005, 03:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No. I drank beer before I was 21, but I'm not on this site telling minors how to make fake ID's and get beer. As long as Ivey isn't encouraging illegal behavior, what he's done in the past is not an issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Other than potential liability for the site's owners (a fairly remote possibility) what is wrong with encouraging illegal behavior? Illegal is not synonymous with wrong, nor does it equate to immoral. That something is illegal simply reflects a governmental decision to criminally prohibit the behavior or action.
Some laws make little sense and deserve to be broken. Someone posted above that the Justice Department has made clear that it won't prosecute individual internet gamblers. But a refusal to prosecute doesn't make the behavior legal. It may well be that internet gamblers in the US are violating state and federal laws.
Good for them. The laws make little sense, prohibit behavior that harms (if it harms anyone) only oneself, and deserve to be ignored.
As for the original topic; I'm all for locking silly threads that ask questions easily answered with the search function.
TomBrooks
10-21-2005, 09:33 PM
I'm opposed to any law that prohibits a person old enough to join the Armed Forces to gamble.
I'm also opposed to the locking of any threads or the banning of any posters.
tubalkain
10-22-2005, 02:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm opposed to any law that prohibits a person old enough to join the Armed Forces to gamble.
I'm also opposed to the locking of any threads or the banning of any posters.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm opposed to anyone who would let you leave without kicking you in the nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm opposed to any law that prohibits a person old enough to join the Armed Forces to gamble.
[/ QUOTE ]
how old are you then?
tonypaladino
10-22-2005, 02:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm opposed to any law that prohibits a person old enough to join the Armed Forces to gamble.
[/ QUOTE ]
how old are you then?
[/ QUOTE ]
sigh
[ QUOTE ]
To Evan, I know of no place (online or B&M) that allows anyone under 18 to gamble. Unless such a place can be shown to exist, there isn't really an arguement for "what if it's legal where they're from."
[/ QUOTE ]
I never saw this last time around. I remember when I was in Spain (I was 14) I saw a slot machine inside a restaurant and played a few spins. I was in plain view of lots of people and no one had a problem with it. I wasn't with my parents (I was with another 14 year old friend). I assume you can gamble <18 in Spain. But who the [censored] cares?
Kurn, son of Mogh
10-22-2005, 06:02 PM
Gambling in the US is regulated at the State level, not federal. Each state has different laws and most are completely vague on internet gambling. The one state I know where gambing online is expressly illegal is Nevada, for obvious reasons.
For specific laws, see this. (http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Law-Summary/)
edtost
10-22-2005, 06:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To Evan, I know of no place (online or B&M) that allows anyone under 18 to gamble. Unless such a place can be shown to exist, there isn't really an arguement for "what if it's legal where they're from."
[/ QUOTE ]
I never saw this last time around. I remember when I was in Spain (I was 14) I saw a slot machine inside a restaurant and played a few spins. I was in plain view of lots of people and no one had a problem with it. I wasn't with my parents (I was with another 14 year old friend). I assume you can gamble <18 in Spain. But who the [censored] cares?
[/ QUOTE ]
IIRC, no one cared about ANYTHING we did on that trip....
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