Random thoughts about going super pro (long)

[sirio11]

Well, as some of you already know, I have 2 jobs, my main job is to play poker, basically tournaments with a $100 or higher buy in and sometimes to play some 30-60 holdem. My 2nd and "official" job, is a full time lecturer position at UTEP, teaching 4 classes a week, this is 12 hours.

I have been playing poker now for 8 years, with a little recess between 2001-2002 to finish my masters degree; and I have always had a winning year. The last 2 years I started to play in the internet and things only got better. This last spring semester, I was really tired doing both jobs, and I thought maybe it was time to make a decision. I decided that if I have a successful WSOP, then the decision should be clear, leave the teaching position and dedicate full time to poker. Well, I had a successfull WSOP, but still the decision is really hard. I have an appointment next week with the head of the Math Department at UTEP, and my thoughts right now are all about telling him I'm not coming back for the Fall semester. But damm, it is hard ...

Lets see, economically, I won about 3 more times a year playing poker than teaching, if I had more time to play poker, odds are I'm winning more money; but this could change in the future. The present is like the golden era of poker.

Professionally, I have developed successful carrers teaching and playing poker, but it is clear than I'm closer to a world class status playing poker than teaching. But then, your contribution to society is way more important teaching than playing poker.

Family: I have a very supportive wife, and she's ok if I decide to leave the teaching job and just play poker; some things are going to be difficult if I decide to travel the tournament circuit but we can work them on. In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player, but I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor.

General hapiness: In this days, I love to play poker, and I like to teach, I used to love teaching, but it is more and more difficult for me to enjoy teaching classes like Math for Social Sciences where most of the students don't want to be there. And with poker, well, all is up to you; if you want to play, you play, if you don't, you don't; and there is always happy people willing to play with you

Stability: The variance in the poker world is a bitch as you know, with the teaching position, you have a security, you have always a positive check payment at the end of the month, with poker, sometimes your monthly payments are negative, and not only you, but your family have to deal with it.

The future: Right now I consider myself a pro poker player, but I want to go super pro, this is, playing full time and traveling to play in the most important tournaments in the world, this means a higher variance and a greater risk of ruin. I think I have the bankroll to do it, I even consider to sell a percentage of my action for all the WPT events, so I can minimize the variance, I think this is a great time for poker and maybe this is not forever, so, I need to take advantage now, but again, my conservative nature tell me to proceed cautiosly, as I have always done; I have never been broke as a poker player, ever!, and right now with a family it would not be a good time to know what it is like.
And also, what is going to be life in 10 years?, playing poker day after day, Am I going to miss teaching? Doing something productive?

Well, I posted this in OOT, but wanted to post it here also, since I think this is the forum I belong to; I hope you can help me out with some comments, from the very experienced people in life, because of the years, or because the life you have lived, from some of you that know what is like to be a pro for many, many years as well as from the really clever young guys in this forum, some of who, even if don't have the experience, have the cleverness to anticipate thing in the future.

Regards

David

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player

[/ QUOTE ]


End of debate.

I think you should do it...but maybe don't go on quite so many trips as you might be planning.
Better for your variance...and you get to spend more time with the family.

Obviously you can make a decent living from home too.


You can probably get your teaching job back in a year or two if you want to.


I think PokerBob used to be a teacher too.

[dirty moose]

I delt cards for a few weeks @ my local club, everynight i delt i pulled it 350-400 bucks a night. i looked at ym UPS paycheck, it said something like 15 bucks for a 25 hour week. Now i just made 400 bucks in one night working 10 hrs or so, how can i not quit UPS. Job stability, UPS is never going anywhere, if i wanted to stay with UPS as a life job its no problem.

I thought about this decision for the night and figured, do i want to deal card forever (or play in both our cases) of curse it nice right now, but will it always be this juicy? will poker be here in a few years, theres no stability, no health benifits none of the stuff that a Teaching job offeres.

You said its only 12 hours a week, i think you can work around the 12 hours to play, you have been doing it for 8 years why change it now? Yours two sons will thank you if you go broke one day but held on to a job with medical benfits. At 12 hours a week i think you should stick with teaching and playing.

Good luck with your decison.

-moose

[morello]

Some things you should consider:

Quitting your job will likely NOT lead to an increase in hours of poker played, and may even lead to a decrease! Be careful about projecting potential earnings in this way. The extra free time will now be eaten up by other distractions (or, in a lot of cases it will be , obviously we don't know your entire personality/work habits). An exception to this might be the fact that you can now travel to big tournaments that you otherwise couldn't. In terms of online poker though, I doubt your hours increase much.

Secondly, are you really working for 12 hours a week? Or is there a lot of other "hidden" time, such as preparing lectures, grading, etc. If the true time committment is 12 hours a week, I can't understand why you would quit your job. Don't you have more than enough time for poker already? It's not like the games are especially good at 9am on a Wednesday. Also, do you have summers off, or are you teaching year-round? If you have summers off, you already have one third of the year to be a Super Pro. That's not enough?

Thirdly, a teacher is viewed as a "legitimate" member of society. Someone who contributes to the world. It might not matter to you what a stranger thinks, but do you think you are a better role model to your children as a poker player, or a teacher? People will probably jump on me for asking that question, but it is a valid one to ask.

You haven't mentioned anything about the options available to you if you decide to return to teaching later in life. Would it be relatively easy to return? Would you be able to receive the same compensation? Would your employer allow you to try poker for a year, with the option of returning if you want?


With all that being said, you should probably give it a try if you honestly think that your life will be more productive, and the hours you currently spend teaching will end up being utilized efficiently AND that you have will have a suitable contingency plan.

FWIW, I had to ask myself some of the same questions when I decided whether or not to stay in school. I make a good amount of money playing, and constantly have friends ask me 'well why are you even bothering with school?' The answer for me personally, is that I would not play much more often if I dropped out. Couple that with the fact that an education can allow me to pursue other options later in life if I choose to, and it was an easy decision.

Good luck whatever you choose.

[Sluss]

I think you should look at what you enjoy doing the most. I know you love doing both. However, once poker changes from being a fun (and very profitable) side job to a daily grind will you continue to love the game as much as you still love your "real job" as a math professor.

Right now is the best time to go "super pro." The tournaments are as big as they will ever be. The side action is as juicy as it ever will be. With your skill, ability and a little luck you could set yourself for a long time.

You can always return to teaching. Just be sure your ready to give up your "hobby" and make it your job.

[USCSigma1097]

One of the biggest things that you need to consider is this:

Poker is not viewed by society as a "real" job. Regardless of its current successes, I would still venture to guess that a majority of the people in executive positions in the United States, as well as an overwhelming majority of academia view poker as a less than honorable profession.

Thus, a major problem for someone in your postion is the "hole" in your resume that taking time off is going to create for you. You, along with others, are saying that you can always go back to teaching if this doesn't work out. How accurate is that statement? If you tell your department chair that you are quitting your job to gamble for a living, how willing are they going to be to hire you back...or give you a reccomendation for someplace else?

Right now you say you make X number of dollars teaching and 3X playing poker. Keep your 4X and buy your wife something nice. You won't make more money playing poker if you leave your job, because you won't put in more hours. If anything, you play as much as you do now because it is an escape from your job. Have you considered the psychological changes that are going to take place once it is your primary income. All of a sudden the money you lose when your aces get cracked is not your bankroll, but your groceries.

As a man with a family, do the responsible thing and keep your job. A man does what he wants to do until he does the things he has to do. You have the fortune to balance both at the same time. Don't mess that up.

Sigma

[billyjex]

I think you should go for it -- take a year off, try the life. You are at the top of the game and have a great oppurtunity to play a game you love as your profession -- and MicroBob makes a very good point as well.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[Stipe_fan]

David,

I am hearing that most ppl perceive poker players careers as not a legitimate occupation. Since you are a teacher which is one of the most respected fields, does this bother you?

Another consideration, is the ability to get another job if you decided to return to teaching. You definitely need a back up plan if the game dries up and gets difficult. Eventually, the easy money will not be there. I know there are some ppl that are very successful like Ivey, Negreneau, Lindgren but if you are not in the elite status, the going could be rough.

I also feel that spending more time with the family is a big consideration. I am a little surprised that you could spend more time with family when you are travelling the poker circuit. But, if this in fact is true, then that makes your decision easier.

Therefore if you and your family can handle the poker player stigma and you can return to your job as a university lecturer and you can spend more time with the family then I feel the decision is easy. I think you should turn professional. Is there anyway the university will grant you a year sabbatical from teaching? That would definitely make your decision easier.

Good luck in your decision and future endeavours and keep on posting on 2+2!!

Mack

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
You said its only 12 hours a week, i think you can work around the 12 hours to play, you have been doing it for 8 years why change it now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to agree here, my 1st thoughts exactly....I've been a Corporate Instructor/Developer for the past 10 years and love the work, HATE the travel and the limitations it puts on my play, albeit I'm NOWHERE near your level of play!

I value things like health insurance, stocks/options, 401ks, etc too much right now to attempt full time play, instead, I set goals for money that I could earn on the "side" and double dip as much as possible when not in front of a class, and "working from home" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good luck with your decision, hope they fall even for ya!

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you can help me out with some comments, from the very experienced people in life, because of the years, or because the life you have lived

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the important thing is to view it as a job and a business. To prosper in a job, you not only have to do the day to day operations, but you also have to grow and imporve. To prosper in a business, you not only have to generate enough revenue to stay afloat, but you also have to make sufficient profit to reinvest (e.g., move up in limits, profit sharing, or put away for a rainy day), and stay ahead of the competition.

These are admittedly pretty generic and far easier to say than do.

I think you also have to look at things in terms of a worst case scenario. For teaching the worst thing would be that you invest several years trying to get tenure and then if tenure is turned down, you are stuck and may even be terminated like any other job. What do you do then? You have to have enough cash reserves to get by for the next 6-12 months or longer, until you get to that next assignment.

The same goes for poker. What is your worst case scenario? What do you do if you get mired in a -2sd swing that lasts for 6 months, a year, or longer? Do you have enough reserves to continue to support your family? Would your wife an family be able to cope with those kinds of financial swings?

When someone goes into business, isn't it typical to have 6-12 months of operating capital on the side to account for revenue slumps and other kinds of downturns? So the same would be true for your poker business. Completely separate from your playing bank, would have to be the equivalent of about 12-18 months "pay" for you to be able to support your family.

If you go into the poker business, then IMHO what you might want to do is something like this:
- Incorporate yourself and put yourself on a salary. That could be whatever you need to live, save a bit, pay the bills,etc., such as 1500 a week.
- Maybe you make your wife and child shareholders in the corporation.
- Then if it turns out that your corporation is generating in excess of $1500 a week in revenue, which hopefully it would be, then you put this money away (such as invest in a profit sharing plan, or some tax deferred savings plan). You also put a little aside for re-investing in yourself, maybe something like $5000 a year for a trip to Vegas and a paid consultation with a top expert like a Sklansky (or whomever).
- Then you also keep receipts for everything, bus fare, gas, whatever you spend money on for your business. You keep an accounting ledger of all your sessions, win or lose, your tournament entries and prize money, etc. IN other words, you do business accounting just like any other business.

IMHO, these would be basic common sense considerations. If you couldn't or wouldn't be prepared to handle these, then perhaps teaching full time and playing part time is a better thing.

I would concur that this is probably a pretty conservative approach, but getting set up in a new business, I would think one would want to be fairly conservative.

Just some random thoughts. Hope it helps.

[blufish]

USC nailed it squarely on the nose with his post. I'd definitely take his advice.

[BPA234]

Based on your post, I think this decision is one that can be be partly reached through a straight forward financial model. The balance I think has to be reconciled with the quality of life issues relative to teaching at the university level, loss of tenure or years towards tenure, and other factors that are the result of your present set-up.

BTW, I am fairly certain that university professor ranks at the top of the best jobs list for compensation and quality of life. I would need to consider that reality when compared to the quality of life of a full-time poker pro.

Finacially, I think you have to consider the following: annual living expenses, retirement and insurance investments, (health insurance(more than major medical) for a family can run you 1-2,000.00 per month), anticipated tournament/travel expenses for a reasonable period of time based on past cash record plus plus any other expenses equalls X.

Cash on hand, not counting bankroll has to be able to handle that expense load for a period of time that roughly correlates to your negative variance history ( with an added cushion built in).

Poker bankroll has to be of sufficient size to handle, what I would expect to be an increase of tourney buy-in cost and frequency.

IMO, very tough decision for you. I would consider sitting down with a finacial advisor to capture all the relevant financial issues.

I sincerely hope you reach the best decision for you and continue to do well with whatever you decide to pursue.

Thanks for all your solid 2+2 posts and good luck.

Brian

[fnurt]

I would think about taking a year's sabbatical as a trial run, if the option is open to you.

[Che]

Poker was my primary income in 2004 and is my only income this calendar year. I finished my MBA in May of this year plus I was self-studying for the CFA exams, so I haven't been spending all my time on poker, but I quit my graduate assistantship last May (2004) so I could spend the 20 hours a week I was working more productively. I have allocated most of the extra time to my family with some extra time going to poker.

I currently play ~25 hours per week on average. I have not been wildly successful, but I have been able to pay my bills (family of 4).

Feedback from a semi-pro on some of the comments in this thread:

[ QUOTE ]
I have an appointment next week with the head of the Math Department at UTEP

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't professors on one year contracts? I know it is a lengthy process to hire a professor (second hand knowledge - my Dad is a university chancellor and former dean), so I'm afraid that quiting with such late notice could generate ill will that will negatively impact future employment in the field (if you need it).

Unless you *know* that UTEP has the flexibility to replace you easily AND that your relationship with the administration will not be damaged by your move, I would stay on for another year (or at least a semester, if they're OK with that). I doubt either condition will be true, much less both. Thus, I would let the administration know that you are considering this move in the future, but I would not make it now.

Edit: I only say the above because of the unique aspects of your current field. If you had a "normal" job, I would recommend that you give your two weeks notice today and take your shot at being a super pro ASAP.

[ QUOTE ]
But then, your contribution to society is way more important teaching than playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO I can contribute a lot more to society through giving both my money and my time if I become a multi-millionaire poker player than most people contribute by getting a job and working hard for 30-50 years.

(Notice that I said "most people" - I'm not saying pokers riches are the pinnacle of self-actualization.)

[ QUOTE ]
In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you are correct about this.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of things that we do impact our kids' lives. One important thing, if not the most important, is how much time we spend with them.

Another important thing is the example we set for them. I believe that a child's image of God is determined to a large extent by her image of her earthly father, so it is important to me that my kids have respect for me. Respect is earned through proper actions and making good choices consistently. While young children, and even teenagers, may not appreciate the decisions we make immediately, I believe my kids will appreciate the way I have prioritized my life when they get older.

These are my plans:

Play poker if it allows me to optimize the $ earned/time spent with family balancing act. Get a job and supplement my income with poker $ if necessary. Otherwise, keep poker as a hobby if I choose, but decrease my hours significantly if having a job provides better $ earned/time with family results.

A key to this is thinking long-term. If I get a job (and I almost got one last week - I'm casually job hunting while being VERY picky), I will definitely take a pay cut to do so on an hourly rate basis. However, I think that there is a good chance that the long run income will be much better in a job, so I'm willing to go that route if I don't make a huge poker score before I find a job on my A-list.

Conclusion:

I know my situation is different from yours (quitting a job is a little different from not aggressively seeking a job), but I hope I have provided some food for thought that will help you make a wise decision.

Good luck on whatever path you choose.

Later,
Che

[z32fanatic]

I'm not sure about how easy it is to get the same job at UTEP that you have now, but if you think you could easily return, you should definitely take a year or two off and try it. You are probably one of the best, if not the best, tourney player on this site so if anyone could do it, it's you. I say try it and if it doesn't go as well as you thought it would, you can just go back to your job as a professor. You have a chance to have your dream job, and you will almost certainly succeed at a greater rate than your other job. Also, if you're selling pieces of your WPT tourneys, make a post on here and you'll have 100 backers in an hour. Good luck and keep the excellent tourney posts coming.

[Atropos]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />

In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player, but I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I can comment on this point fairly well, since my father is a University professor. However I'm from Germany and it is possible that professors here and in the USA seem to be quite different (12 hours a week? Never saw my father work less than 100 hours a week, do you do any scientifical research?)

In Germany the respect for professors is very high, they are considered the mental elite of the country. Very often in my life when someone asked me what profession my father has, and I told them, many said "OMG [censored] WTF A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR"

And you may not forget that their is the process of "stigmatism" (sry, english is obviously not my natural language). It basically means, that if you know someones social background you always have some prejudices about someone of that background too. You then will automatically check his behaviour if it is according to your prejudices...

This can be a bad thing and is one of the reason why minorities like immigrants often have it very hard. It can be a positive effect too: I'm sure that all my life I have been given more credit for my modest mental capabilities than I deserve, just because of my father. And there is also something like an aura of expectation: If the teacher makes you feel he totally expects you to fail the class, if you dont have any intrinsic motivation to show him otherwise you will fail.
If however you have the feeling that everybody respects you and expects you to be smart, you will try your best to live up to their expectations or to the honour of your familiy. At least that's what I did all my life.

All in all I can say that I have always been proud to live in a familiy where my father was a professor, and my mother doctor for medicin. I cant explain why since obviously they reached everything by their own force and I didnt contribute anything to it. It's just a personal experience.

HOWEVER I think I have to write the other side of the medal too. You mentioned you would possibly have more time for your kids, which is certainly a good thing. My father nearly never has any time for me, since he dedicated all his life and capabilities to the science. It possible would have been better for me if he didnt, but worse for the world in general. But possibly this doesnt apply to you being a professor that much if you only work 12 hours a week anyway...

[Degen]

gl w/ whichever way you go

dunno if you've seen but i've put my company on hold and 'gone pro' full time (though it appears on a much smaller scale than you), so i'll give you my two cents.

i don't have 1/10th the responsibility you do so going broke isn't really a major concern of mine (other than the fact that it would suck)...though one thing i can tell you as that playing everyday is not a lot of fun after awhile. maybe traveling the tourney circuit is, i imagine thats a blast, but if you are going to play mostly online...that gets to be a grind real quick. i'm like three weeks in and i can already testify fully to that.

i was a lot like you before i did this...i had a day job (my company) that i didn't put a lot of time into, and spent much more time on poker, and by most accounts was probably some form of a 'pro' then...but to me it didn't feel that way, it was just a profitable hobby that i put a whole lot of time into...the key difference from this and doing it full time is that I ALWAYS LOOKED FORWARD to playing poker before...i never played if i didn't want to, and when i lost, i didn't dwell on it. Now i play whether i have the urge or not, and as with anything in life if there is no anticipation and doubt (as in waiting to play after work or thinking you may not get to play) then it is just not going to be as attractive to do it after awhile, basic human psychology.

So ya, take this with a grain of salt cuz i'm 24 and have no family and have only been at it three weeks...but that'd be my two cents.


Best of luck.


Bill

[tom441lbk]

good luck with whatever you decide to go with david!

I'm leaning towards the decision of taking a year off or so,
and evaluating it, don't professors have the option of taking a year or so off, i can't remember what its called, but i some professor friends, and i think one of them did this.

Good Luck in your Quest

-Tom

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
However I'm from Germany and it is possible that professors here and in the USA seem to be quite different (12 hours a week? Never saw my father work less than 100 hours a week, do you do any scientifical research?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Most university professors (at least at the larger universities, I'm sure it's different at community colleges and the like) are much closer to your experience than to sirio's, though 100 hour weeks are definitely still atypical. sirio's position, I believe, is as a lecturer, meaning that he is employed to do nothing but teach, so no, I don't think he's doing any research.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
Professionally, I have developed successful carrers teaching and playing poker, but it is clear than I'm closer to a world class status playing poker than teaching. But then, your contribution to society is way more important teaching than playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you underestimate your importance and influence in the lives of young people. Outside my parents (and my mother is a teacher), teachers (particularily mathematics teachers) have been my biggest role model growing up. If you are not getting a job satisfaction currently, perhaps you could apply for a different position. Something like teaching gifted high school students or more advanced undergrad courses, where the students actually want to be there.

[ QUOTE ]
Family: I have a very supportive wife, and she's ok if I decide to leave the teaching job and just play poker; some things are going to be difficult if I decide to travel the tournament circuit but we can work them on. In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player, but I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you plan to play on the live tourney circuit, that is going to have a significant impact on the time you have with your family. On the other hand, if your wife doesn't have work commitments, since your children are still not in school, it might be possible to travel with them. Also, having more time to spend with the kids at home will mean that you have more opportunity to take an active role in their education. More time to read with them, take them to museums, etc. I think this may outway the role model status of being a professor.

Just a few thoughts, gl with your decision.

[adanthar]

Two things to consider, one good and one bad.

Good: As a teacher, you don't have the resume problem that other people have mentioned, at all. When in need, you can simply say you took a few years off to write a novel that didn't pan out (or, for that matter, you can actually write one.) Every other teacher on the planet has already tried this; you can, too.

Bad: I remember you mentioning you are from Mexico. If you are not a citizen yet and only have a green card or a work visa, you can potentially get into some pretty bad legal trouble (specifically, deportation proceedings) depending on how the government decides to treat online poker in the next few years. Talk to a lawyer *and* an accountant about this to maximize your cover (if you're a citizen, you should anyway, but the deportation thing is an extra bonus /images/graemlins/frown.gif )

[Rounder9999]

Since I cannot speak from years of experience as a professional poker player, I can't begin to tell you what you can expect if you do decide to make the jump to "full time" as a poker player. I can tell you that at 19 years old, I would put the number of hours I've logged playing against most anybody, so I can somewhat speak of the general lifestyle. As I was reading some of the other poster's responses, I couldn't help but give you some of my thoughts....

First of all, I am very bothered by the alleged stigma that comes with being a "professional gambler/poker player." I have obvioulsy had my fair share of run-ins with a number of ignorant people who can't open their mind to the idea of playing poker for income, but I quickly disregard their opinion for the simple reason that they are mearly uninformed about the subject.

As far as contributions to society, this is and will always be in your hands regardless of your exact profession. Volunteer, donate to charity, do a variety of things that can give you a great amount of satisfaction as far as giving back to your community.

I was mostly bothered by a poster claiming that a poker player is not a good profession to have as a role model for your children. In my book, showing your children that you can truly pursue your dreams by doing what you want with your life, while at the same time being able to do more things with them is about as good of an example a father can set.

From the day I started playing poker, I have had nothing else on my mind besides doing it full time. You are in a very unique position possessing the skill and the apparent discipline it takes to make it. You only live once, so spend it doing what makes you happy regardless of what anyone else says.

[Python49]

Who gives a flying f*ck what other people deem "honorable"? I know i certainly don't. If i'm doing something I LOVE to do for a LIVING, you can't put a price tag on that. While other people in their honorable positions are tied down to their job and have no escape even though they hate it and wish they had some freedom. If anyone told me that poker wasnt an honorable profession i'd simply tell them i'd rather play cards from the comfort of my home or in a lovely casino than to hump a 9 to 5 with a boss looking over my shoulder. That is all.

[A_PLUS]

I think that is very telling that you mentioned how you like teaching when you used to love it. From the experiences of those I know, situations like this rarely reverses. Meaning in a year/two from now, you are much more likely to dislike teaching than you are to love it again.

It is rare for anyone to have an opportunity to achieve elite status in a field that they love. You have that opportunity, and passing on it will most likely continue to trickle into other forms of your life (i.e. teaching feels more and more like work).

The only reason I can see for not turning super pro is you children/wife. Yes, you will have more time to spend with them overall (hours/year), but the schedule associated with a traveling pro is very tough.

Can you play your best game, if you have to travel accross the country when your children are sick, have a basketball game, just generally miss you? One of the great things about internet poker is the physical proximity you enjoy with your loved ones. Are you prepared to miss some important steps in your children's life (1st steps/words) b/c you are playing poker? Even when you consider it a job, I would expect that their will be more guilt associated with it than if you were teaching.

I think you will need to give this a shot for your own well being. Just try to work out every detail of your family situation before hand. The best aspect of your situation, is that you have a career that allows for exit-reentry (Che had some good thoughts on this). If you gave it a shot and failed, you could resume your current situation with relative ease.

I wouldnt worry too much about your children's view of having a poker player vs professor as a father. If playing poker allows you to spend more time with them and makes you happier, it will outweigh the negatives of having to tell their 1st grade class that daddy is a poker pro.

Good luck, the WPT isnt going to know what hit it.

[CardSharpCook]

Yo, man. Chase your dreams.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
I was mostly bothered by a poster claiming that a poker player is not a good profession to have as a role model for your children. In my book, showing your children that you can truly pursue your dreams by doing what you want with your life, while at the same time being able to do more things with them is about as good of an example a father can set.

[/ QUOTE ]

[CardSharpCook]

As a response to other posts:

I like the post that says "contribution to society is not determined by profession"

As a Pro, my working hours have increased dramatically since making the switch. Before it was 20 hrs a week, now it is 40-50. I hate it, but I'm putting in the hrs. If you treat it like a profession, then no, it isn't difficult to commit the hours.

Stigma, shmigma - if you have people who love and support you, as Sirio does, then it really doesn't matter. Having met David's beautiful wife, he really is lucky in the support department. She told me, "Poker pays for our family. David likes to teach, and it makes him happy, but poker is providing for us."

Poker is around to stay. Fish will always be numerous and players as good as Sirio will always be able to take advantage of that.

I don't think that Sirio will have a problem returning to teaching if he so chooses.

Finally there are many posters on this site and in this thread who are hobby players or addicts that have difficulty seeing poker as a "hard way to make an easy living". These people just don't look at it the same way as "we" do. I remember a recent thread in the limit forum in which sobedude is trying to tell someone that by folding 44 to a $60 river bet on a $1000 pot isn't going to lose him $1000 (a river ace likely counterfeited his boat on a AATT4 board). It may cost him somewhere btwn 0$-$50, but you can't look at it as missing out on a $1000 pot. the guy didn't get it. It is just two different mentalities, and I think you are also seeing that here.

sorry, this is just drivel.

CSC

[sirio11]

First, I'm really impressed by the quality of the responses, I just wish I have posted this before (Have been thinking on this for months). You gotta love this forum.

Now, trying to answer some of the questions or to complete information:

As today I just teach in the spring and fall (Feb-May, Aug-Dec), they always offer me to teach summer courses, but I have always declined to do it, because in the summer I can play full time and travel with my family wherever we want to go for a month or weeks if we choose to.

I'm a lecturer, I'm no tenure-track, so losing years toward the tenure it's not a problem. As gumpzilla pointed out, my only responsability is to teach, 4 classes per semester, this is 12 hours, but I would say I spend between 16-20 hours a week total including all the related stuff. Che is right about the 1 year contracts. I know there are good people looking for a job right now that can replace me, but I'm prepared that if they think this is not in the best interest of the University, then I'll stay another semester, or a year.

I spend about 35-40 hours a week with poker related stuff, then it's between 50-60 hours a week "working" in the spring and fall. All those hours are taking their toll on me, and of course, in the quality time I spend with my family.

I know that if I don't teach, not necessarily all the time is going to go to poker, and thats ok, as long as working is less of a burden, I think I'll have a more productive life.

I think lecturer positions are not that hard to find at Universities across the US, as today, but this could change in the near future. I have a very nice teaching curriculum, hopefully a hole in it, does not impact it much.

I don't have the experience to travel the tournament circuit in a regular basis. Last June-July, I was in Vegas for like a month, most of the time my family was over there, but I know this is not going to be the case most of the time. It's hard to predict how this is going to impact my family. We think about moving to a city near LA or Las Vegas, that's another big decision.

As adanthar said, I'm from Mexico, as today I'm a resident in the US, my wife is an American Citizen, and I'm planning to become one as soon as I can. I don't think there will be a problem for playing poker online, but with this administration, you never know. I'm more concerned about having problems, because of my strong anti-war stances /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

To do what you really enjoy is one of the main reasons to make this decision, right up with doing what is best for your family.
As today I really enjoy playing, and teaching has become more of a daily grind, of course there are still wonderful days when you can see how you were able to teach somebody a hard concept and how they enjoyed it, but those are far and between, and I think this is not likely to reverse as A_Plus pointed out. I already do some extra-curricular activities that Isura advised to do, like working with gifted students, preparing them for the Mathematical Olympiad contests, but I do this for free, so it's not part of my job, and I plan to continue doing it.
I understand that the daily grind also happen in poker. It has happened to me in the past, when I just don't enjoy playing at all; and you know what I do, I just don't play !!

The psychological changes proposed by USC are an interesting take and should be considered plenty.

When somebody asks what do I do for a living, I always says proudly I play poker, and I always enjoy how they look confused. Don't know how respectable as a profession is, but that does not bother me at all.

I think I'm a little naive about the economic implications in the future, for starters, I don't own a house, and don't know how much of a hustle is to buy one as a profesional poker player. I don't have enough information about 401k, stocks and the best way to invest your money, Definetly, I need financial advise. I liked spee's advise on this matter.

Che is right on, about how you can contribute to society. I have thought ways of doing this, I have even thought about teaching how to play poker to a large group of friends so we can generate a big bankroll and invest in some community projects and crazy ideas like that, but the point is, your contribution to society it's up to you.

I totally agree with Rounder about "showing your children that you can truly pursue your dreams by doing what you want with your life, while at the same time being able to do more things with them is about as good of an example a father can set".

Sorry for the long post, but you guys give me a lot of feedback to think about.

David