Given the relative stack sizes and position, what does Hero do?

[Proofrock]

This table has been tight and passive for the last 3 levels. Table average VPIP / PFR = 23 / 4. I've been very LAG trying to stay alive -- my stats for this table are about 40/28. The big stack has only shown down AKs or pocket pairs since the beginning. When the other short stacks have gone in, it's been mostly with weak aces or two high cards.

Here's my dilemma. Big stack acts before the two blinds. If big stack calls not only am I almost certainly behind, but the two short stacks will fold in hopes that I get taken out.

Normally I just push, hope to double up or collect another round of blinds, but I'm wondering if there's something better to do here. I know I'm limited by my stack here, but does Hero have any other play?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t10020)
SB (t1333)
BB (t642)
Hero (t1505)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero ??

-cj

[ripped]

Ok I didnt read the whole thing because it looked silly but there is no other option other than a push. If first in with this it's an easy push.

[bluefeet]

it being scary, doesn't make right to not do it.

you have to push this IMO (well...i do anyway).

[A_Junglen]

Push. You shouldn't just be afraid of someone "picking up a hand", it's 4 handed, you have 7.5bb.

Your certainly not going to fold, and raising to 500/600 prices you in.

Push.

[Nottom]

You don't have enough chips to be worrying about what happens when the big stack finds a monster.

Easy Push.

[curtains]

Just move allin, especially since bigstack is supposedly tight.

[bennies]

I push this too, but maybe there is another possibility.

Since one of the objectives of this hand is making sure BB doesn't keep his 200 posted, I wonder if you could just call here. Fold to push, except if it is BB pushing.

Probably AQ is to strong to do this with, would anyone consider this line with a weaker hand? Say AT, KQ or 77?

[jacknine]

I wouldn't push this because I don't want to see fold-fold-fold and take the blinds, though other players may be prefectly happy doing this. I want to make sure one of the shortstacks moves allin. So - I would minraise in this siuation - since bigstack seems to know what he's doing he may be alerted by this and give you credit for a bigger hand.
Comparing the pot to their stacks will be a likely invitation to one of the small stacks to push. Since you said they've been doing this with not the best of hands, I'd be happy to see this and call the allin.
Even if SB pushed and BB called, I'd move - you're either gonna get enough chips to be able to contest the big stack heads up or you'll go out but at least finish in the money.

...Would be surprised if anybody agrees to this.

[lastchance]

Picking up t300 is always cause for celebration here. Of course, getting all-in with other small-stack is ok, but there's no way you should encourage big stack to come over the top of you.

Plus, BB is coming along for the ride with a lot of hands here. He's getting better than 2:1, and you don't need to encourage him to go all-in.

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't push this because I don't want to see fold-fold-fold and take the blinds, though other players may be prefectly happy doing this. I want to make sure one of the shortstacks moves allin. So - I would minraise in this siuation - since bigstack seems to know what he's doing he may be alerted by this and give you credit for a bigger hand.
Comparing the pot to their stacks will be a likely invitation to one of the small stacks to push. Since you said they've been doing this with not the best of hands, I'd be happy to see this and call the allin.
Even if SB pushed and BB called, I'd move - you're either gonna get enough chips to be able to contest the big stack heads up or you'll go out but at least finish in the money.

...Would be surprised if anybody agrees to this.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pushing and your opponents folding is precisely what you want to happen. You cannot be picky here. You're stack is not that much bigger than the other two shortys and if the BB doubles up thought the big stack all the small stacks will be about even. If your read on the big stack is correct and he's overly tight, then maybe I can see min-raising as a viable option, but more times that not, especially if he has any clue whatsoever he's going to be pushing over the top of your minraise with wide range of hands.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Picking up t300 is always cause for celebration here. Of course, getting all-in with other small-stack is ok, but there's no way you should encourage big stack to come over the top of you.

Plus, BB is coming along for the ride with a lot of hands here. He's getting better than 2:1, and you don't need to encourage him to go all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if the bigstack pushes ... well then you are pretty much [censored].

Plus the BB is calling with any thing remotely resembling a hand. There is no need to generate action for a hand that doesn't really want or need it.

[curtains]

I agree its unpleasant if the bigstack pushes, but lets be honest, its not like they are going to have you dominated most of the time. Youll still often be a favorite and they likely won't push very often to begin with.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree its unpleasant if the bigstack pushes, but lets be honest, its not like they are going to have you dominated most of the time. Youll still often be a favorite and they likely won't push very often to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, but I'd rather not give some tricksy 2+2er sitting on the bigstack a chance to think he has a right to steal with any 2 here.

[curtains]

Hey now, I thought we were arguing the same side. Of course I move allin preflop, and would never consider a smaller raise. Our hand is just too powerful.

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus the BB is calling with any thing remotely resembling a hand. There is no need to generate action for a hand that doesn't really want or need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I agree with this. We're right on the bubble. Hero pushes, Big stack pushes, based on SB's and BB's play so far they just want to be in the money, and I'm about 80% sure they don't call in this case unless they have AA-QQ or AK.

Let's say I minraise like an idiot -- if biggy folds, then i'm calling any reraise from SB or BB. If biggy folds, then there's still a chance that everybody will fold, or at the worst one of the two other players will stay in the hand, and I'm just as happy -- the rest of my stack is still probably going on this hand regardless. If biggy calls, I see if either of the blinds comes along before I put the rest of my stack in.

Now let's say I minraise like an idiot, biggy pushes, and the blinds fold. Given Biggy's history, I figure I'm at best a coinflip here, and at worst I'm crushed (Biggy hasn't been playing optimally -- he's been playing conservatively throughout). There's plenty of money in the pot, but is there any worthwhile argument for folding? I know this sounds weak-tight-horrible play with the pure intention of cashing, but given that I'm one of 3 severe shortstacks against a single huge stack, is there any possible justification for this?

Incidentally, in the actual hand I pushed -- after all, what else is there to do?

-cj