J9s flushdraw vs 3bettor, lots of decisions.

[Trix]

SB´s stats are like 50/20ish in 50 or so hands, but he is also 50+vpip at 10/20. He is one of the reasons I´m playing.
I´ve seen him 3bet an UTG-raise 10-handed with Q3s on the button. A MP raise with 98s also. He doesn´t clown seem to clown it up as much after the flop.

MP is pretty much unknown for maybe 10-15 hands. Haven´t noticed anything.

BTN is loose-aggr aswell, but more postflop than SB and less preflop with 3bets, prolly more aggro with openraises.

BB seem Tight.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks ?, MP checks.

Turn: (5 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font> ?, MP calls, SB folds.

River: (7 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ?

Thought it would be hard to get MP to fold a better hand, but Í´m not that sure now.
All comments are much appreciated.

[ghostface]

Bettttt flopppp.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
Bettttt flopppp.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like check/raise better.

[Stork]

Is that a standard UTG raise? I usually fold or limp depending on the game.

Anyway, gotta bet the flop. You have a good chance of folding out a better hand like queen high or maybe even an ace high hand, but also you want any 6 outer out which is definetely worth 1 bet since you have so much equity.

Also I don't bet the turn after checking the flop, it looks too much like a bluff, unless you were betting for value there.

On the river I'd check, MP will call you down here too often I think since he wouldn't figure the 4 to help your hand.

[wheelz]

I'd fold preflop, and after what happened next, I bet you wish you did too /images/graemlins/wink.gif

IMO the flop is the easiest decision in this hand. If you bet you're just asking MP to raise, which is not good for you.

On the turn, I don't know. I think checking might still be best. You have no idea if this guy has you drawing dead to KK, or is waiting to call down with TT, or has A8o and is just waiting for someone to bet so he can fold... it's a tough spot against an unknown. But you do know you can't fold, and that your J high probably isn't good, so I don't think you can go wrong with check-calling.

On the river, you still don't know where you stand, but you're certainly not winning a showdown and the pot isn't massive, so I guess you might as well stab at it one more time? It's usually not easy to get someone away from a showdown for one more bet though... tough hand.

[Trix]

What range will pfr fold, what will he raise and what will he call and what are you planning to do on the turn.

Is this really that standard and boring to you that you think a one line reply should settle it ?

[Trix]

Could you elaborate a bit ?

[Lmn55d]

I think doing anything but check/calling this flop sucks. Turn is close but I'd check because I dont think you win this enough and you have to call the raise. After playing it how you did, river is pretty dang close but probably a check/fold because if he's checking the flop and calling the turn it looks like he's showdown bound.

[Trix]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that a standard UTG raise? I usually fold or limp depending on the game.


[/ QUOTE ]
I´ve given all info I had and thought it was a raise here since it´s 5 handed and a couple of the players are pretty bad, despite them beeing aggro.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, gotta bet the flop. You have a good chance of folding out a better hand like queen high or maybe even an ace high hand, but also you want any 6 outer out which is definetely worth 1 bet since you have so much equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, which hand will pfr fold, raise or call ?

[ QUOTE ]
Also I don't bet the turn after checking the flop, it looks too much like a bluff, unless you were betting for value there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I may agree with this. My argument for betting was that if check then MP will bet very often, so I might aswell put it in myself and give him a chance at folding. I may not have weighed the chance of him beeing tricky and raising high enough though.

[Stork]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that a standard UTG raise? I usually fold or limp depending on the game.


[/ QUOTE ]
I´ve given all info I had and thought it was a raise here since it´s 5 handed and a couple of the players are pretty bad, despite them beeing aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

They may be bad, but you're still raising in with what is probably the worst hand. I'd rather just limp.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, gotta bet the flop. You have a good chance of folding out a better hand like queen high or maybe even an ace high hand, but also you want any 6 outer out which is definetely worth 1 bet since you have so much equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, which hand will pfr fold, raise or call ?

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll fold hands that completely missed which have 4-6 outs against you, which you want out in a 10 bet pot. He also may fold some slightly better hands as I mentioned like QJ, QT, maybe even A4 or A9, although I don't know how many of those he raises with preflop. He'll raise a king, but thats really the only thing he can have here that's bad for you. He'll also probably raise a 5 or any pocket pair, but against a 5 or 44/66-88, you are actually a slight favorite, no? So you really don't mind him raising those. He also may raise AQ or AJ which is doing you a favor since it will help get the other guy out.

[TheMetetron]

I raise this hand in this position, too. But I do consider it very marginal and probably neutral EV.

[PokerMike]

I go for the flop checkraise if MP bets and SB calls. On the turn i think you got enough fold equity for that bet to be good, but once MP calls it i think he will call river with any Ace(or pair) here and won't fold a better hand(other than Q hi). A lot of there 20PFR LAGs with 3bet with medium/weak-suited aces here.

[Trix]

SB is the preflop lag, MP is unknownish.

[MicroBob]

not sure of your image at this table...but after an UTG raise (even 5-handed) I'm just keeping on the gas and betting the flop. hope they had QcTc or something and fold in fear of your AK or KQ.

I'm probably going to bet the river here.
he'll probably call down with ace-high (although not definitely)...but he could fold something like A9 or AT.
Also a missed flush-draw like yours or a hand like QJ.

Unfortunately, that 4 definitely doesn't help you much. 22 is the only PP he's getting rid of. If he was staying in with a hand like 76 then he just made his hand.

Maybe a river-check WOULD be better here.
hmmmmm.