Bubble Shortstack all-in, hero w/ nut flush draw

[jgunnip]

***** Hand History for Game 2485669920 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14585454 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Saturday, August 06, 01:01:00 EDT 2005
Table Table 13833 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: hero ( $2590 )
Seat 3: Dextermn8r ( $2480 )
Seat 8: Obi_Wan1 ( $310 )
Seat 10: goin_allin ( $2620 )
Trny:14585454 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ Ad 7s ]
Obi_Wan1 is all-In [310]
goin_allin folds.
hero calls [235].
Dextermn8r calls [160].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4d, 5d ]
hero checks.
Dextermn8r is all-In [2170]
hero calls [2170].


I felt this was an easy decision since hitting the draw or an ace likely win the hand and give me a big advantage going HU.

[MuckedTheNuts]

I really do not like this decision much at all, first of all i wouldnt risk going out in fourth place because you called an all in on a draw. Second just from my experience when you are in a situation like this people are much more likely to bet only when they have something (they want the other person out as much as you do), so unless you have a strong suspection to the contrary I think this a definate fold.

[bluefeet]

i would fold in a heartbeat. there's no way i'm giving away basically every last chip on a post-flop draw. if it was 3-handed, i might just open-push that flop, but you can't call it IMO. the blinds are still small. save your chips to pwnd (i can't believe i just used that 'word') these guys after shortie busts.

[lastchance]

Well, I raise preflop, if I decide to call here, I certainly think it's right.

On the flop, A-high beats a lot of his range. I think I bet out and shove it.

[acIdREIGN462]

[ QUOTE ]
I really do not like this decision much at all, first of all i wouldnt risk going out in fourth place because you called an all in on a draw. Second just from my experience when you are in a situation like this people are much more likely to bet only when they have something (they want the other person out as much as you do), so unless you have a strong suspection to the contrary I think this a definate fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you realize that you are increasing the chance of the shorty going out by calling here. If you hit nut flush shorty out 99% of the time. Also you are probably 40%+ to beat the bigger-stacked player for the reasons stated in the OP so you are making a good cEV call which should in this spot be +tEV.

I like this call on the reasoning that you have 12 outs and have a good chance of winning the tournament if you win this pot. Someone tell me why I am wrong here.

Edit: Wow I missed that you have a gutshot too, this has to be a good call, no?

AcidReign

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I raise preflop, if I decide to call here, I certainly think it's right.

On the flop, A-high beats a lot of his range. I think I bet out and shove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

...guess i should have at least looked at the PF action. yes, i would definately raise shortie's push (he's correctly pushing here with almost any two). no reason to push over the top, but making it t700 to go here would probably do. THEN, if the BB still chose to join, i would push the flop.

given the situation you're in here, i still think it's proper to fold.

[bluefeet]

hmmmmmm.....

althooooooooooough, HERE BB is screaming "MINE!". if he does in fact have shortie beat here (assuming shortie is pushing a ton of junk), then our call is basically playing for 1st here vs. 3rd. meh...maybe not so bad /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ripped]

[ QUOTE ]
i would fold in a heartbeat. there's no way i'm giving away basically every last chip on a post-flop draw. if it was 3-handed, i might just open-push that flop, but you can't call it IMO. the blinds are still small. save your chips to pwnd (i can't believe i just used that 'word') these guys after shortie busts.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jgunnip]

bump

[acIdREIGN462]

bump....i'd like to hear some more opinions on this


AcidReign

[curtains]

I would fold I think, but I agree its very unpleasant that the guy just opened allin.

[curtains]

btw I do make some kind of raise preflop also to get it headsup with shortstack.

[DarrenX]

I like it- unless all in dude is nuts, he has a piece... it's a 99% guarantee for ITM, and could be huge heads up. Nice play.

[jgunnip]

I agree a pre-flop riase to say t600 would probably be best here to get it headsup.

As it turned out. the short stack hit a set with 55 and the BB had 89 for top pair. The turn bough a diamond and won the hand, knocking both opponents. the BB then went bananas on me for making the play and continued to berate me until I eventually lost the heads-up match. I got a good laugh out of his reaction but it got me thinking if it was really the right call.

Without doing the math and ICM on it, I think my flop call was marginal at best, but on the other BB's donk push was well quite horrible.