Is this a common problem?

[Daliman]

I am a winning poker player. I win 5 BB per hour online in low limit games, and just over 1 BB per hour in 10-20 live games,(rarely play 10-20 online, had a few bad runs wipe out my limited BR). I am currently on a pretty bad losing streak in which i go in with better hands, outplay my opponents, and yet still get crushed. I'm familiar with the 1% chance of a pro(which I'm not) going on a 300 BB losing streak theory forwarded by S & M, so I'm only mostly disheartened by my recent losing streak. But I wonder, though, is there already a term for, when playing a a table with obviously bad players and losingbadly, is there already a term for continuing to play and losing far more then you ever intended to risk(before you say it, I already know, "poker")? I don't mean tilting, because it's not; it's playing in a game in which I know I have an advantage but am getting crushed, and continuing to play a solid game, continually rebuying, and losing most, if not all your $$$ at the table. If there is no specific term for this, I'd like to nominate one, inspired by the fish who usually eat me alive in these instances; "Bait", as in, "I'm going on Bait". I also considered "Floundering", but it didn't seem to have the proper ring to it.
On a related note, does ANYONE ever have a problem quitting a game when they are down when they feel themselves to be a superior player. I've tried to adhere to loss-limits at higher levels, but can never seem to do it if fish are prevalent at the table.

[rubixxcube]

Here is the theory that is always sighted. These bad players will eventaully pay you off. The problem that is so disheartening is this, It always seems like the guy who cold calls your raise constantly with terrible cards and beats you doesn't seem to lose his money back to you or even leaves a winner. This is very common. These things happen. Trust me i know how you feel, it happens to all of usThe problem is that you can't let it get to you.
here are some examples i ran into today.
I did not have a good day today.
I flopped a set of JJ's, was heads up with one person, he hit a flush on the last card, he called 34 suited under the gun, and called me heads up.. thos are bad odds for his draw.

I was BB with QQ, all folded, the button, a loose raiser, raises. I reraise and we are heads up.
Flop comes 78A(rainbow) no flush draws)
I bet, he calls
Turn is 6
i bet, he calls
river is a 9
so board is
78A69
Now i check, and here's why. I se far too many people make this mistake. They bet the river with a hand that can't win when called.
Remembering that i reraised him, he must know i have some kind of hand,
look at the board again
78A69(no flush out)
What could he call me with here if i bet?
a straight,
2 pair,
a set
or an A.
I checked, he bet, i called, he turned over J5, a straight.
before we move on, take the above seriously, i see too many of my friends either lose an extra bet on the end or get raised when betting into 1 person who can only be calling if they beat you.
Look at the flop again.
He was 3 bet by the big blind,
flop comes
78A
i wonder, how does J5 call this flop?
he shouldn't he hit two miracle cards, after that flop i am miles ahead of him, he needs two running straight cards, two jacks, or 2 5's. So i want a player like this to play these stupid cards against my Q's. J5 against queens is a huge underdog, even if suited, so you should welcome his action.

You ahve to get used to it, that's how the game goes, esepcially hold'em, you can have big swings, but if you are a good player you should get the money in the long run.

Also don't forget that when you lose a pot to a guy like i just described, don't forget all the pots you win off another loose player who plays just as bad. You'll hardly remember when you beat him, but remember when he beats you every time.
lastly, if you find yourself in these types of loose games where stupdiness beats you, you shoudl alter the hands you play. Be less apt to play a hand like AJoff UTG as this is not a good multilway pot hand. See the AJ off post above.

[Ulysses]

On a related note, does ANYONE ever have a problem quitting a game when they are down when they feel themselves to be a superior player.

Yes.

[D.J.]

To answer your question, yes, I too have problems w/quitting these kinds of games, and am upset at myself b/c I couldn't say this is just not my night after the first 2 or 3 racks. I know how badly people are playing and that in the "long run" I'll win against them. However, you know what I say about the "long run"... F**K the long run, it's a bullshit idea. The long run doesn't do a damn thing for me right now when I'm getting smoked on the river by 2 and 3 out hands. What most people don't realize is that they will never see the long run, it's waaaay too many hands and situations of poker, and no matter if it's today or 4 yrs from now, someone is still going to be catching the same miracle card and there'll be some genius at the table saying don't worry buddy you'll get him in the long run. Let's think about this, you're playing 20-40 and lose a huge $1000 pot to a 1 or 2 outer when you have top set, it would take a hell of a long time of bad play from that particular guy (if he ever comes back) to get the $1000 that you should have had. Bad beats and suckouts just simply do not even out, you just can not play that many hands against the people who beat you for it to ever even out, and even if you did, there would be someone else there to put beats on you. Being an LA player, you can not avoid horrific beats, you almost come to expect them, if someone plans to make a living playing cards, they have to get through the tough beats and bounce back without tilting off their bankroll. Don't get me wrong, the action here is great, but you've got to be able to sustain the losses to go along with the big profits. Bad players will always be around and sometimes people will get lucky, a good player just has to hope his cards are hitting when the chips start to fly.

-D.J.

[BruceZ]

How is it that if certain words are considered offensive, that the same word with one letter removed which looks the same and conveys the same meaning is OK? Don't get me wrong; I don't like censorship, and colorful language is often a plus, though the site operators can make any rules they want. In fact, doesn't it occur to anybody that the only reason some words are considered bad is because they are often censored? Bleeping out words in a movie, replacing them with other words which change the writer's meaning, and removing letters from a word is just plain silly.

[Daliman]

This is the first time Bruce Z has EVER posted something which did not contain some advanced algorithm so concise that he could tell me, just by knowing what I bought in for, what limit, and for how long, exactly what color my grandmothers underwear is at that given moment. I, and my grandmother, find this a momentous occasion, as today, Bruce Z does NOT make me and my 151 IQ feel like a blithering idiot. That said, i ugree wit yer centimints on cent sir ship.

[Tommy Angelo]

"On a related note, does ANYONE ever have a problem quitting a game when they are down when they feel themselves to be a superior player."

At every big blind, pretty much in every game through all of time, I consider quitting. Many factors effect those decisions, and profit is but one. If I think I've got an advantage in the game, I am more likely to stay. If I am stuck, I am more likely to quit. If I have a planned event, I am more likely to quit. If I have nothing scheduled, I am more likely to say. This list goes on and on. Nowhere in that list, ever, does the notion of "feeling like a superior player" weigh in.

Call it semantics if you want. But I think there is a big difference between "sizing up a game and concluding that my betting decisions are sufficiently likely to produce profit to tip the scales in favor of remaining in the game," and "feeling like a superior player."

Put another way, if there are some superior players in the game, and they are stuck, and I can see in their eyes that they are worried about their alarm clock calling them to work in four hours, and they are still fuming over the set I hit on the turn that cracked their pocket aces an hour ago, and all the while they are boasting of their talents while they curse the dealer, and my next appointment is a 7:00 AM tee time, then yeah, I'll probably stay in the game, even though they are superior, and even though I'm stuck.

Tommy

[modestmouse]

word to that motherfrickin chit.

[modestmouse]

your IQ comment reminded me of a discusion i had with a horse track friend about how at poker idiots can win with good feel and smarts doesnt seem to help as much as at the track...