Meh

[Ghazban]

Villain is very loose and very passive with draws. I was planning on folding to a 3rd club if one came as that seemed his most likely holding. The reason I didn't put him in on the river is that, if he's bluffing, he'll fold anyway, if we're splitting, he calls, and if he has exactly QcTc, I'm just giving away money.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($223.90)
MP3 ($145.95)
Hero ($531.05)
Button ($260.49)
SB ($187)
BB ($203.43)
UTG ($102.05)
UTG+1 ($156.08)
MP1 ($193.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, Button calls $2, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $5</font>, MP2 calls $5, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $25</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $20.

Turn: ($67) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, MP2 calls $40.

River: ($147) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $100</font>, Hero calls $100.

Final Pot: $347

[trevor]

With a bet and a call in front of me and all those people yet to act behind me, am I a nit for wanting to fold? This seems like the definition of reverse-implied odds.

[Ghazban]

The bet isn't even 1/2 pot; I figure this guy is drawing a large percentage of the time and the caller could be doing it with just about anything, too. If I get 3bet, I'm gone. If somebody who originally checked flat calls my raise, I'm pretty much done with the hand. I figure the caller raises with a king and the bettor bets more with one, ergo I probably have the best hand.

[punter11235]

I hate to say that as I am very liberal preflop but this time its too much even for me. Fold preflop.
I would probably fold on the flop too cause I have no idea how to play toppair no kicker on this scary board.
I would push the river.. maybe he has set or 2pairs and wont lay it down ?
If he has Q10 I congratulate him. Bet from early position then call of big raise then call on the turn with just a gutshot (OESD after turn) is enough to get my stack.

[kongo_totte]

I fold pre-flop. The rest I'd probably play the same, but the reason I'm folding pre-flop is that I don't like the situation you are in throughout the whole hand: protecting with a very marginal holding.

The river call is good.

[ajmargarine]

Fold preflop.

Fold on the flop. K7 and down are the only kings you are ahead of here, and who plays them from MP?

As played...meh...I think you see two pair here quite a bit. I doubt he gets away from whatever hand he has for only $56 more, as I doubt he is bluffing. I think pushing here would be +EV.

[Ghazban]

I'm surprised everybody is so quick to fold this preflop. Turning a long term profit with a hand like KTo in LP after others have limped in should not be difficult for people on this board. As long as you don't fall in love with one pair, its not a difficult hand to play in my opinion.

I also don't get people saying he's going to have two pair or a set on the river. What two pair/set plays this way? KJ? I don't buy it. A player who makes this river play with KJ goes on my buddy list for life.

[trevor]

[ QUOTE ]
The bet isn't even 1/2 pot; I figure this guy is drawing a large percentage of the time and the caller could be doing it with just about anything, too. If I get 3bet, I'm gone. If somebody who originally checked flat calls my raise, I'm pretty much done with the hand. I figure the caller raises with a king and the bettor bets more with one, ergo I probably have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100% with this analysis (and it's a good one btw). There are just so many cards on the turn that suck outside of red cards &lt; 5. Looks like flush draw for MP2.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet, I am not a nit!

Given the way you get to the turn why not bet more?

On the river I puke because I have no nuts and cannot call. Looks like a value bet w/ x /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif or he missed the draw and has air. Very interested in the results.

[trevor]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing here would be +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had a lot of money left to bet this would be a really sick, sick play. I like it alot /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
On the river I puke because I have no nuts and cannot call.

[/ QUOTE ]

?? As in my testicles aren't big enough to call this bet

(or)

I don't have the nut straight and won't call this bet without it?

[Ghazban]

You don't call with the 2nd nuts on the river? I think you've misread something.

I didn't bet the turn more because its possible that villain was slowplaying a set. I wouldn't do it on a board like this but that doesn't mean he wouldn't. He also could've turned the JT straight. I bet an amount that is -EV for a flush draw to call but is not so much that I am committed to call if he makes a large checkraise.

[trevor]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you've misread something.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for being so kind as I have now come to realize I have misread the board. Good thing this was your money and not mine /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

May I re-evaluate captain?

[trevor]

Given my already expert analysis thus far I flat-call the river. See, now you can sleep better knowing I gave the ok.

Nh.

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised everybody is so quick to fold this preflop. Turning a long term profit with a hand like KTo in LP after others have limped in should not be difficult for people on this board. As long as you don't fall in love with one pair, its not a difficult hand to play in my opinion.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that betting this hand twice on this board is actually falling in love with one pair. If I was to play hand like KTo after a few limpers I wait for 2pair / str8 draw and bet it only once with one pair.

[ QUOTE ]
I also don't get people saying he's going to have two pair or a set on the river. What two pair/set plays this way? KJ? I don't buy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are experienced SSNL player... you still dont buy such lines? I think its quite possible line for set or KJ. Villain bet his pair, get reraised. But most Villains wont fold KJ to raise but just get passive.
But playing Q10 this way is something that would really surprise me...
I am not sure about this river I would definitely push it but I am not very convinced. One is for sure you cant fold it.

Best wishes

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is very loose and very passive with draws. I was planning on folding to a 3rd club if one came as that seemed his most likely holding. The reason I didn't put him in on the river is that, if he's bluffing, he'll fold anyway, if we're splitting, he calls, and if he has exactly QcTc, I'm just giving away money.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($223.90)
MP3 ($145.95)
Hero ($531.05)
Button ($260.49)
SB ($187)
BB ($203.43)
UTG ($102.05)
UTG+1 ($156.08)
MP1 ($193.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, Button calls $2, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $5</font>, MP2 calls $5, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $25</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $20.

Turn: ($67) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, MP2 calls $40.

River: ($147) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $100</font>, Hero calls $100.

Final Pot: $347

[/ QUOTE ]


Good hand. You are a much better player than I am, so I'll just learn from your self-analysis.

[Ghazban]

I just don't see him not having made any move earlier with a set or two pair. The only two pair that waits until the river to make any kind of move is one that was only one pair until the river (i.e. some sort of Jx) and I don't think its very likely he stuck around with something like middle pair this whole way so KJ is the only reasonable two pair hand that could be out there. Even with KJ, I think most players will check/call on a board like this as there are so many better hands possible and somebody else has been showing strength all along.

As far as QT goes, the only QT that makes it to the river is exactly Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif and I think this is exactly the way a loose, bad player would play it.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
If I was to play hand like KTo after a few limpers I wait for 2pair / str8 draw and bet it only once with one pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

The trouble with this is that a T maybe gives someone a straight, you don't want to see clubs and any straight Hero makes is of the runner-runner variety with 4 of the straight cards on the board, which usually isn't that big of a payout, and is often a split.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]

Thank you for being so kind as I have now come to realize I have misread the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phew. I was almost worried about you there bud. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[trevor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Thank you for being so kind as I have now come to realize I have misread the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phew. I was almost worried about you there bud. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, no. That was just the beginning /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as QT goes, the only QT that makes it to the river is exactly Q T and I think this is exactly the way a loose, bad player would play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. I forgot about Qc10c. I still call this river but dont raise anymore.
Could you post results ?

Best wishes !

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
You are right. I forgot about Qc10c. I still call this river but dont raise anymore.
Could you post results ?

Best wishes !


[/ QUOTE ]
yeah what the hell did he have!?

[Tuben]

Fold it pre flop.

[pokerjoker]

1. Agree with pf fold.
2. I would be pretty amazed if this guy had Q10. He might have 2 pair/set and be thinking of his AMAZING odds if you might be bluffing your push. I would push here. I think he will call with 2 pair or a set more often than the chance he would hold Qc10c.

I often lose/ do not win enough money because I think my opponent is thinking like I would. I think knowing that there are many kinds of players out there is an important point to consider when playing.

[Ghazban]

He had T7o (no clubs) and we chopped.