L.A.P.C. KK preflop horrible play"yes no"?

[heavybody]

No-limit satellite,I'm in the small blind with(8,6offsuit)blinds are 5,15 First Hand. UTG1 opens for 15,4 callers to me I call BB checks,Flop:8s,6d,4s,I lead for 15,BB mucks utg1 mucks utg2 calls,utg3 mucks,4th player moves all-in(KK I THINK THIS IS BAD AND I'll EXPLAIN WHY typical overpair to the flop play which I was anticipating)I call( I was going to call any raise)utg2 calls(As10s flush draw)Turn is a spade,river is a blank Flush Wins.
I think the player playing the Kings made a serious mistake by not Raising to get the garbage hands out(8-6 off in my case)and,ESPECIALLY,weak Aces A2, A9, etc.and any other marginal hands to protect his hand. The amount of the raise is Debatable,but since there is 65 in the pot to him I think(75-90)is appropiate(though moving in is O.K.) Having failed to force garbage hands like mine out he thought he got a good flop when in fact this was an extremely dangerous flop for him. If he would have raised pre-flop then this flop would be more favorable for his holding He probably would have won uncontested. The BB could easily have had 56,44,66,etc.
I bet 15 just to get things started and see what happens somebody might have a straight or a set.However I was going to the river at all costs.
Your comments are appreciated

HEAVYBODY

[Ed Miller]

If you are "going to the river no matter what" then why are you only betting 15 into a pot of 5x that size? You are begging weak drawing hands to draw against you and then committing yourself to paying them off when they hit. Playing this way is the surest way to lose your entire stack playing no limit holdem.

As for KK's play... well, it was indeed horrible. How deep were the stacks? It sounds like he way overbet the pot on the flop... and what happened to him is what happens when you way overbet the pot on the flop... you only get called when you are beaten.

[heavybody]

It was the first hand we started with 300 each. Good point on what I should have bet I don't know for sure "remember there is a straight possibility. Basically I think I have the best hand and am hoping to trap someone with overpair.This is a 15 minute round satelite.A lot of times in no= limit players with big pairs like to see flop and if there is no overcard they move in(to shut draws out) as happened here. What do you think I should have done?

[RiverMel]

I agree with the original reply that your bet on the flop was way too small. You have to charge the draws way more than the small percentage of the pot you were charging them and you probably would have gotten the overpairs to move in on you even with a bet as big as 2x the pot.
I agree with you there is no way I am not betting heavily if not moving in with KK except in a few very rare situations (and almost never in a satellite).
His flop play wasn't great either, I would have tried re-raising you a few times the pot to gauge your hand rather than committing right away. An all-in most probably means I'm beat. Any comments on that, anyone?

[sdplayerb]

I think it was a horrible play for numerous reasons.
First, I don't think that bad to limp, if he thinks someone will come over the top or he is willing to get away from it to aggression after the flop.
But if his plan is to just push in if no ace, then horrible play as will only get called my better hands. So risking 1500 to win like 75? Top pair would be stupid to call.

Reminds me of TJ Cloutier says in his book about limping with aces (which he says at times can be a good play).
If you are going to limp with Aces, don't go broke with Aces.

[heavybody]

Yes your right I should have bet more on the flop and possibly the guy with the A10s dumps.(though I kind of doubt it since he called for all his chips on a draw)

[ohkanada]

Well the KK gets what he asked for. He wanted something other than the blinds but he was out-flopped and eventually crushed.

With that flop, you need to bet more than 15. You are giving flushes and straights a cheap turn card. In this hand it wouldn't have made a difference because all the money went in on the flop anyways.

Ken POklitar