You don't fold these, do you?

[Guy McSucker]

I open raise KQo UTG. Next guy cold calls. He's way too loose. Button 3-bets. He's kind of tight. Folded to me, I call, next guy calls.

Flop: K 8 5 with two clubs of which I have none.

I check, next guy checks, button bets, I check-raise, they both call.

Turn: offsuit 9. I bet, they both call.

River: offsuit 5. I bet, next guy raises, button cold calls.

Every fibre of my being is screaming at me to fold because it's just so bloody obvious the raiser has some crappy hand with a 5 in it. But I'm getting 16-1 here. On the other hand, the only reason I'm getting 16-1 is because the preflop 3-bettor is still in there. Hmmm.

So?

Guy.

[Lmn55d]

hmm if the button is tight you are splitting with him at best. He might have AK. This is without even considering the other dude.

[Victor]

i dont fold many rivers but i can get away from this one pretty easily.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont fold many rivers but i can get away from this one pretty easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is that? is it just because of that particular river card + the raise?

[wackjob]

Call every time. Donkbet like this could be a pair of 2's.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont fold many rivers but i can get away from this one pretty easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is that? is it just because of that particular river card + the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

because the button 3bet pf and called 2 on the riv.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont fold many rivers but i can get away from this one pretty easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is that? is it just because of that particular river card + the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

because the button 3bet pf and called 2 on the riv.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is QQ JJ and TT too if Button has a hard time getting rid of good hands. Maybe AA too.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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i dont fold many rivers but i can get away from this one pretty easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is that? is it just because of that particular river card + the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

because the button 3bet pf and called 2 on the riv.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is QQ JJ and TT too if Button has a hard time getting rid of good hands. Maybe AA too.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Button 3-bets. He's kind of tight

[/ QUOTE ]

that would invalidate this statement.

regardless, its quite a parlay to have both of these guys beat here given the action.

[baronzeus]

I agree with you here victor, I'm just saying, a lot of rocks have a tough time getting rid of good starting hands here. It's a fold here, because I think villain #1 has a random 5.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you here victor, I'm just saying, a lot of rocks have a tough time getting rid of good starting hands here. It's a fold here, because I think villain #1 has a random 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

heres what im getting at. if we assume the river raiser is a normal unknown then we would call if it was heads up. if the guy who called 2 cold was a total donk who goes to sd with any piece (there are a lot of these guys as we know) then we would call here too.

[bicyclekick]

When I'm playing good I'm folding and when I'm not I'm calling. Folding is the correct play. It's not a big deal if you call...but folding will save you money in the long run.

[twankerr]

[ QUOTE ]
its quite a parlay to have both of these guys beat here given the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly...getting 16-1 that you have two players beat is a huge difference than getting 16-1 that you have one player beat.

[Guy McSucker]

Hey! I'm actually allowed to fold this! Excellent. I am delighted. I folded.

A5 beats button's JJ.

Victor said he thought button couldn't have JJ because I said he was "kind of tight". I still think he was kind of tight. After this hand I had extra information, i.e. that he couldn't fold a decent pocket pair despite clear messages that he was losing.

Anyway thanks to everyone for letting me fold this. I will get the hang of this poker thing eventually I am sure.

Guy.

[SteveGriff]

|Nice fold - I'm proud of you! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif (I am being serious)

Steve Griff

[meow_meow]

Assuming that button is not totally passive, I can't see him having you beat here. If he's got AA, AK or KK he's either 3 betting the flop or raising the turn.
Sure, villain probably has a 5, but a busted flush draw, worse K are also possible. Button is calling probably in part because he knows villain is a donkey.