Stumbling into a set.....(I thought i folded already....)

[boondockst]

It's a bad habit but I had the "Fold to any Bet" checked after that flop as the pot was multiway and frantically unchecked it on the river (after it auto-checked for me)

Does anyone find a raise here? Plan if reraised?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP ($31)
CO ($22.30)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($28.05)</font>
SB ($22.65)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($120.60)</font>
UTG ($24.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($1) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: ($1) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $3</font>, SB folds, Hero ?????

[foldem]

just call. if he has air he is not going to call a raise and there is a decent chance he has QJ.

[imported_anacardo]

I concur. A decent raise to $8-$10, after that overbet into a desert of a pot, is too likely to be called/reraised only by better hands to be a good value play, I should think.

[xorbie]

He only has $28. I'll lose that with a set any time. Raise it up.

Also raise PF, bet flop.

[foldem]

what exactly do you think the button is going to call a raise with after checking the hand down the whole way and then overbetting on the river that a set of tens beats?

[IamLeach]

The question here is how many hands will villian make this play on the river with. I agree with Xorbie here, raise it to 8-10. Villian will call assuming a bluff with a variety of hands here. JMO

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
what exactly do you think the button is going to call a raise with after checking the hand down the whole way and then overbetting on the river that a set of tens beats?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. Tell us 'bout it, Xorb.

[NYCNative]

I realize that you're out of position but do you consider raising PF with this holding?

[DoomSlice]

Just call... no need to raise a bluff, or the nuts.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
what exactly do you think the button is going to call a raise with after checking the hand down the whole way and then overbetting on the river that a set of tens beats?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair.

[boondockst]

I usually do raise TT...over 100 times (at NL 25) of it i've raised 73% of the time (and i'm sure sometimes the pot was already raised)

I'd just demolished an idiot who'd open-raised to 8 (AK) with my AA to jump up to ~125ish and didn't want to start bullying the table. While not a good reason in itself, I prefer passive tables that let me draw with very good odds and still flat-call pot-sized bets...I've also been trying to fix a leak in my game as far as being too aggressive with hands multiway OOP.

[boondockst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what exactly do you think the button is going to call a raise with after checking the hand down the whole way and then overbetting on the river that a set of tens beats?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

T5? KT? Neither of them are likely given that I have 3 of them are out...I can't see the Button checking an ace on the turn, no matter the kicker...

[foldem]

With that action, the button would have had to have made two pair on the river. I think it's much more likely he's bluffing or has a straight than two pair with the case ten.

[boondockst]

Villain is 22/14/1.5......anyone change their mind?

[beset7]

Line check here (this is what I do):

Raise preflop
Bet 1/2 pot to 3/4 pot on the flop.
Check behind or bet turn depending on card (king i'm betting).
River = easy raise.

I'm astounded that people (a) aren't raising pf (b) aren't betting the flop (c) aren't raising the river. Do you guys not usually play short?

[boondockst]

Since when is TT a MUST-RAISE in the BB with 3 players already limped in? And also, betting into ace-high flops OOP 4-way with an underpair isn't how I make my money...am i way off? Do you also raise pocket 9s out of the BB? Pocket 8s? AJo? I used to raise any premium hand regardless of position and playing multiway pots OOP in a raised pot was starting to become a leak in my game

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Since when is TT a MUST-RAISE in the BB with 3 players already limped in? And also, betting into ace-high flops OOP 4-way with an underpair isn't how I make my money...am i way off? Do you also raise pocket 9s out of the BB? Pocket 8s? AJo? I used to raise any premium hand regardless of position and playing multiway pots OOP in a raised pot was starting to become a leak in my game

[/ QUOTE ]

Pocket pairs 9s and higher are must raise for me in any position playing short. The reason you raise is because it will often make the pot heads up or three handed and then you can take it down on the flop. I consider myself fairly tight in the blinds and 99+ are easy raises for me. Thoughts?

edit: I know boondock is clear on this, but for others: I am talking about 5 and 6handed games.

[boondockst]

I find I make more playing 99- (possibly TT) for set value amongst idiots who will limp with Q2s etc...They're both good arguments

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
I find I make more playing 99- (possibly TT) for set value amongst idiots who will limp with Q2s etc...They're both good arguments

[/ QUOTE ]When I do this, the donk who limps with Q2 but who won't play it in a raised pot hits his Queen. I realize that a raise OOP when people have money in the pot with a hand that will get an over/overs on board most of the time is scary but I prefer to be aggressive as long as I feel I have the best hand and barring an UTG limp-reraise-with-a-monster or some total slowplaying donk, you can be pretty sure those Tens are the best hand before the flop.

[boondockst]

I really don't mind playing for set value...It seems everyone is fixated on winnning a 42 pot with an unimproved pair of nines