Did I misplay the nuts when I had them?

[wpr101]

Hi, I'm hoping to get some opinions on a hand I played in a $20 SNG recently. I had Ac9c. There were two limpers in front of me and I called also. I had last position and there were two other people in the hand. So the flop comes 4c 8c 10c. I hit the nut flush. At this point the pot is about 100. The first guy leads out for 100, the second guy calls, and I also just call. The turn then comes Kc and it gets checked around.

Did I make a mistake here giving a free card? I have the nuts at this point so should I make a bet? If so, what percentage of the pot should it be?

Anyways river comes 4s (there are 2 4's out there now). First guy bets about 50% of pot, the 2nd guy folds. I minraise; he re-raises all in, and I call. He had pocket 8's so his full house beat my flush.

I think my play on the flop was fine and I was hoping they would bet again on the turn but they didn't. Should I have bet that turn?

[durron597]

What were the stack sizes?

[wpr101]

Sorry I should have mentioned that. It was at the beginning so I had about 750ish. The guy who made the set had about 1000. Blinds were 15/30, level 2, at partypoker.

[durron597]

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Sorry I should have mentioned that. It was at the beginning so I had about 750ish. The guy who made the set had about 1000. Blinds were 15/30, level 2, at partypoker.

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This is a very scary board and you have no real way to put your opponent on a set. Honestly I don't mind checking behind the turn, nor do I mind betting here. I think it comes down do "do I think my opponents will pay me off with a worse hand like Qc or a set/two pair or even worse if I bet now", which is really hard to judge.

Your big mistake in this hand, though, is raising the river. With 4 clubs on the board, you're not going to get a lot of action from worse than a full house except maybe the Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, but the Q/images/graemlins/club.gif probably bets the turn so you can rule it out a lot of the time.

[wpr101]

Yea I agree, the river was definetly a mistake.

[AA suited]

you're probably not going to get much action on the turn if you bet.

i would have checked on turn, and place a small bet on river unless a scare card hits.

and in your case, it did come. in that situation, i would have just called a bet.

[Uppercut]

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Anyways river comes 4s (there are 2 4's out there now). First guy bets about 50% of pot, the 2nd guy folds. I minraise; he re-raises all in, and I call. He had pocket 8's so his full house beat my flush.

I think my play on the flop was fine and I was hoping they would bet again on the turn but they didn't. Should I have bet that turn?

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In hindsight, yes. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[durron597]

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In hindsight, yes. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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Right, but the important point is that just because you made what is at worst a minor mistake on the turn doesn't mean you should compound the mistake by giving your entire stack to a boat. Just call river.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I hate slow playing anything but top FH or better. This sh!t always happens so I always bet. He may still call and beat you, but at least you would have played it correctly, IMO. Bet 3xbb on flop, if he calls bet at least 1/2 pot on turn and rvr. I don't like your raise on the flop... if you raise and he is beaten... he will fold, if he has you beaten you cost your self more money, therefore no benefit to you by raising.

[wpr101]

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I don't like your raise on the flop...

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I didn't raise the flop. Do you mean the river?

Also do you guys think I should have folded after I was re-raised all-in. I would have been left with 500-600 chips. The pots odds were pretty favorable at that point for a call even though I thought there was a good chance I was beaten. Should I have layed it down?

[wpr101]

I told two of my poker friends about this hand...

They were both saying how I shouldn't have given a free card on the turn and that there's 10 outs for me to NOT have the nuts anymore. But I responded to that, that is assuming they already have a set which is far from garunteed. Also 10 outs with 1 card to come is not enormous.

[durron597]

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I told two of my poker friends about this hand...

They were both saying how I shouldn't have given a free card on the turn and that there's 10 outs for me to NOT have the nuts anymore. But I responded to that, that is assuming they already have a set which is far from garunteed. Also 10 outs with 1 card to come is not enormous.

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Exactly. Letting the turn check through really isn't terrible. However getting your whole stack in when the board pairs is.

[RobGW]

I think not raising on the flop was a mistake. The pot is getting big in relation to your stack. You have two players who already said they have enough of a hand to bet and call. Get the money in now as another club may dry up the action.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

yes, I meant I did not like your raise on the river

[wpr101]

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I think not raising on the flop was a mistake. The pot is getting big in relation to your stack. You have two players who already said they have enough of a hand to bet and call. Get the money in now as another club may dry up the action.

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How much would you raise there though? A minraise or 2x his raise? Or 3x his raise? I don't want to shut them out completely. Idealy I was hoping for action on the turn and didn't get it and probably should have bet the turn in retrospect.

[USGrant]

The river raise was the death move. If you just call and win it's still a nice pot. I think a medium sized raise on the flop would have been good. The set probably would have pushed however, which is what you are looking for, but you would have lost anyway.

When I flop nut flush and someone leads out in front of me, a raise will very often (8 out of 10?) be interpreted as a Ace-holding semi-bluff, or just a straight pot steal attempt, and I'll get callers. If the turn is a club too, a follow up turn bet might get the player holding a set to drop their hand, which you may or may not want, but I generally would rather take a nice pot at this point then gamble.

[djoyce003]

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I don't like your raise on the flop...

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I didn't raise the flop. Do you mean the river?

Also do you guys think I should have folded after I was re-raised all-in. I would have been left with 500-600 chips. The pots odds were pretty favorable at that point for a call even though I thought there was a good chance I was beaten. Should I have layed it down?

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What else other than the full house moves all in on a 4 flush board? He knows you have the ace high flush and doesn't think you can fold it, and he was right. I would have called the river bet...as you played it, you HAVE to fold to the push on the river...you are behind 99% of the time here barring a read that villain is a complete and utter donkey, which you don't have.

[david050173]

First off I fold this preflop a lot. Second if you act last, how can you not bet the turn? Other than river bluffs, there is no card that is going to make a second best hand that will bet here. Personally I am reraising on the flop most of the time here. Maybe it is a small reraise (100-150) that would give a set decent odds but I want them to pay to play.