I ask for serious advice about this matter

[mackthefork]

I'm coming upto 30 soon, and I have been thinking about the decisions I made earlier in my life, I have no paper qualifications of any merit, a couple of C's, D's and E's at GCSE level thats all, I did nothing when I was at school, and I mean nothing. I have a decently paid job for the area I live in, and I almost own my house, it has a very small mortgage on it.

Anyway to the point of this thing, I'm seriously considering quitting my job and selling my house, in order to go to university to study a math degree. People might think I can't do it, because I'm not smart enough or too lazy. The fact is I am very smart, I was just an idiot for not working hard first time around, I can admit that.

I have no children and am not in a current long term relationship, so I have no ties at all. I suppose no one will have done this, but I'd like any advice I can get, its all a little scary to be honest.

I'm not lost or hopeless or anything, I could easily continue to live what Sklansky refers to as 'a life of quiet desperation', but I'd rather not.

Regards Mack

[diebitter]

Go for it. There's not many worthy of more respect than someone who decides to further themselves later in life than most others (IMHO) , and usually no-one better motivated.

And there's all those young birds to meet too!

Hiya markthefork,

Quite an interesting problem you are pondering there! It really moved me to answer you.

imho, do whatever you have enthusiasm for. If it is math... go and do it. If it is something else, go and do it, especially if you can afford it, so early in life... real luxury to many! Thirty, still gives a very long life earning capability. Think about being burden with spending most , or at least a very significant part of your this life-time, doing something you don't like vs something you truly enjoy.


Seems EV+ to me.

Good luck dude, I am on your team for change if it is bettering the prospects /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Enjoy


MidGe

--
"Our human race is affected with a chronic underestimation of the possibility of the future straying from the course initially envisioned" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb

[Net Warrior]

Can you take a 6 mo leave of absence from your job? If so, do it, borrow against the equity in your house to pay expenses for 6 months and enroll in college. If you're going out of town maybe you could rent out your house for 6 months. See if you can runs As and Bs in school. If so, stay with it. You can always get a student loan and work part time while completing school. You'll be older than most of your fellow students so you have to see how that effects your social life. After 6 months, then decide if quitting your job and selling your house to pay expenses is best.

Sounds like quite an adventure. Good luck.

[NDHand]

Unless you want to be stuck living a life of "quiet desperation" go for it!

[steamboatin]

I thought that was Pink Floyd.

[ QUOTE ]
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way, the time has come this song is over, I'd thought I'd had something more to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this song helped motivate me to quit my factory job and go sell real estate.

[ QUOTE ]
And then one day you find, ten years have gone behind, none one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had been working in a factory for about nine years and for some reason, that line really had a huge impact on me. I was in a similar situation, Late 20's unmarried, no girlfriend, had some rental property etc.

RUN, do not walk, do not hesitate, go directly to school or whatever it is that you want. When I left the factory, a few of my coworkers wanted to know what would happen if I couldn't make it selling real estate and I asked them this question; "How hard will it be to find another dead end job?"

[mosdef]

This sounds like a no-brainer.

Option A: Go for a better life with absolutely no chance of things actually being worse than they currently are.

Option B: Stick with your current situation, even though you're not really all that happy.

Come on, man. Trying and falling short isn't really failure. Not trying at all is failure.

[diebitter]

[quote Trying and falling short isn't really failure. Not trying at all is failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

vnh.

Made me think of a few quotes that might decide it for you.

Things alter for the worse spontaneously, if they be not altered for the better designedly. - Francis Bacon

You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Gandhi

Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens - from Dune

The Sleeper must awaken!

[meow_meow]

Do it.
I quit grad school first time around, then screwed around for 4 years in dead end jobs. Now I'm back getting my phd (crosses fingers) despite the fact that I'm married and have a new baby.
Poker pays the bills.

[jb9]

Is it necessary to quit your job and sell your house right from the start?

Since school didn't work out so well for you the first time, why not just take one or two classes and make sure it's the right thing for you now?

If yes, then quit the job, sell the house, go full time, and get your degree.

If no, then you still have the job and home to provide a stable base from which to continue searching for something better.

In poker terms: Don't go all in preflop. Limp in and see the flop. Then you'll have more information and can make a better decision about whether to go all in or to fold and wait for better cards.

[jb9]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was Pink Floyd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was Henry David Thoreau who coined the phrase.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was Pink Floyd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was Henry David Thoreau who coined the phrase.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding

[gergery]

I would try to find a way so that it is not an either/or decison. Keep working and take a class at night, etc.

Try to hedge your bets a little until you are convinced it is correct.

--g

[sandsmarc]

Don't hedge your bets and don't play it safe. Go for it. If the passion is there make a total commitment.

[CaptSensible]

Good for you! I think its a fantastic decision. It's never too late to change your life. I'm thinking of going back to school for a degree in psychology. The time is gonna go by whether you go or not. May as well have the knowledge and degree at the end of that time.

I was just diagnosed with ADD which adds much insight as to why I couldn't focus in school when I was younger. I'm looking forward to getting it treated and hoping that will help things a bit when I go back to school.

I know some people that didn't get their degree till they were about 45 or 50. They're very happy now and doing quite well!

Again, Good luck in your endeavor!

[RunDownHouse]

I may have missed this while skimming the replies, but why sell the house? If the mortgage is that small, the payment would be less than even Uni housing, right? Are you planning on buying a smaller house, or one near the school?

I just don't get why you'd sell it.

[LargeCents]

How different is your mindset versus when you went to school the first time? Are you just going to get into the same rut?

I'm speaking from a similar personal experience. I basically did the same thing, quit my job, went back to school only to be sitting there halfway through the semester wondering what in the hell I am doing. I ended up finishing the semester and dropping out halfway through the summer session, only to end up in a series of increasingly crappy jobs.

I'd question your motivation and goals to see if it really makes sense for you or not. I'd echo the thoughts of a few, that you should take a night class or something to see if you can really get into it again. Hedge your bets, if possible.

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]
I may have missed this while skimming the replies, but why sell the house? If the mortgage is that small, the payment would be less than even Uni housing, right? Are you planning on buying a smaller house, or one near the school?

I just don't get why you'd sell it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had the same thought. By all means, go for your dreams while you can, but it isn't clear from your OP why you need to sell what is probably your biggest asset. If you are moving away and need the money, look into taking an equity line and getting some tenants to pay it back.

Who needs government grants or Student loans when renters can pay your tuition, books, room and board?

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I may have missed this while skimming the replies, but why sell the house? If the mortgage is that small, the payment would be less than even Uni housing, right? Are you planning on buying a smaller house, or one near the school?

I just don't get why you'd sell it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to go somewhere that will be at least 150 miles from where I live, if you have ever been to the UK, you will understand why it is impossible to commute that far. I have to sell to pay for my education, accomodation etc, I plan to work but I fear the house has to go in order for me to get through all this, I just won't be able to afford to maintain it, pay taxes and so on while I'm not using it. I wish there was an easier way, but I don't think there is.

Regards Mack

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
How different is your mindset versus when you went to school the first time? Are you just going to get into the same rut?


[/ QUOTE ]

I have been working hard for over 12 years, I had to work for nothing for two years to get where I am today, my mindset is very different from back then. I have also done home studies for my job, thats self motivating, I have no fear of not being interested, else why would I put everything I have into doing it just to fail.

Regards Mack

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Who needs government grants or Student loans when renters can pay your tuition, books, room and board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I will look into whether this is possible, requirements are a little different in the UK than in the US so it may not be, but thanks for the suggestion.

Regards Mack

[mackthefork]

I think I had already decided to do this, I just wanted to get some idea of whether it was a very bad idea or not. I'd just like to say thanks to all you guys who took the time to reply, and wish you all good luck in your endeavors at the tables and away from them.

Best Regards Mack

[MicroBob]

i'm not sure how motivated you are.
but i do think that if you weren't that motivated in school the first time around there is a decent chance you will eventually become pretty unmotivated again.
maybe not.

also basing this on the idea that you obviously seem pretty uncertain of whether or not to do this.


friend of mine had bounced from one job to another...very little money...very smart guy....very scattered and generally unable to maintain focus.

at 30 he went back to college to go to law school.
very inspired at the start. passed the entrance exam (or whatever) without breaking a sweat.
3 years later he HATED it...was skipping his classed...only staying there because he just couldn't back out without finishing it off (which he finally did).
called it an enormous waste of time and energy.
i don't think he got the fulfillment out of it that he was looking for!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif



i'm not saying this stuff will happen to you.
But i do know quite a few people in their late 20's who were pretty disillusioned with their careers/lives who went back to school because they basically couldn't think of anything better to do. and for the most part I don't think they found what they were looking for.


I'm 34 and prior to poker this idea had been tossed around at me. "you're a smart guy Bob. Why don't you try going back to school and getting your masters in something?"
"ummm...because going back to school just because I can't think of anything better to do is kind of lame. And I hated more than half of my classed the first time around."


So...I think there's a difference between being:
- 30 y.o. and just not sure what you want to do...so "Lets go back to College!!!"
or being:
- 30 y.o. and being truly inspired to go back to school (even with some other decent options)


I'm not judging you or your situation.
It could very well be the best thing for you to do.
But I do know many people who went to grad-school in their late 20's and it was more like trying to full some sort of void that they really needed to be filling elsewhere imo.

at 34 I'm SOOOOOOO glad I was never tempted to do this.
but that's just me.
I do admit to being just a tad jealous (but mostly proud) of my Dad and sister, both of whom get to be called 'doctor' thanks to their advanced studies (my Dad got his PhD in chemistry and was a scientist...my sister is a veternarian)

[ipp147]

Hi Mack,

I wouldn't sell your house thats for sure. I read in another answer that you will likely be away from the house but you should certainly consider remortgaging it for the amount you need to borrow and then renting it for the few years you are away.

My only question would be what will you do once you have your degree. Have you considered what field you want to move into after it?

Good luck regardless

Alex

Go for it man. Sounds like you are in a perfect situation to start afresh. Look at it this way...start now so that when you are 50 you don't look back and wish you had done something at 30. 30 isn't old by the way.

Oh and Sklansky didn't say "most men lead lives of quiet desperation" it was Henry David Thoreau. Mike Caro uses the same quote in his chapter in Power Poker. If you like to play poker you should know all about taking risks. Go do it now!!!

[imported_bingobazza]

I think that any university will want entry level qualifications before you can start a maths degree...so maybe try for a part time A level first before you leap in. You'll need to contact UCAS for entry information.

Why do you need to sell your house? Dont sell your house, or even increase your mortgage...you dont need to. Most of your fees will be paid by your local authority, and you will get top up loans to live off...I think you will have to pay £1000-£3000/year in top up fees, and the student loans can be used for living expenses of about £500 a month I think (they are cheaper than increasing your mortgage...RPI Interest rate of about 2.1% on loans OR 6% mortgage SECURED ON YOUR HOUSE). A part time job (poker maybe?) can be used to supplemement your income. Another £500 a month at poker should be plenty to do everything that a student needs to do. Maybe consider taking one of your classmates as a lodger to split the bills and study with?? And you can always work on a building site during the holidays for £500 - £800 a week in London to prepare for the next year. I usually saved about £6k during the summer when I was a student....and had a lot of fun doing it. Dont mess around with your property when its almost cleared and you really dont need to. I cant stress this enough and I really hope you dont make this critical mistake. I'd bet big money that you'd regret it.

Bingo

[Hiding]

[ QUOTE ]
People might think I can't do it, because I'm not smart enough or too lazy. The fact is I am very smart, I was just an idiot for not working hard first time around, I can admit that.


[/ QUOTE ]

first time through college i graduated with a 2.00000001
had to stay an extra semester to get to a 2.0, second time....4.0 in electrical engineering, masters as 4.0 also, for what its worth.
As far as your decision? You have to pick what is important to you, simple as that

I agree with everyone else. Go for it! If you fail, then at least you tried and that is a lot less sad to me than someone who live a second choise life and never had the courage to live out their ambitions.

“At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since.”
~ Salvador Dali

I think you should go for it as well - though I agree with some of those who suggest perhaps starting on a part-time basis.

Just a thought - since you live in the UK, which is one of the most expensive places to live in the world - perhaps you might consider going elsewhere for school. What is the tuition where you are thinking of going?

I was going to suggest, specifically, that you come to Canada - we just passed a new regulation that allows foreign students to work off-campus while pursuing their studies - so you could go to school AND earn some money - and the $$$ you will get for your house will go A LOT further in Canada than it will in the UK.

For math, you could attend the University of Waterloo, which has one of the best math programs in the world. The tuition should be under $10,000 Canadian - about $4500 pounds.

The only question would be your grades - since they are not particularly high, I am not sure how admissions would work - you may have slightly lower requirements as a "mature student"

If you have any questions, send me a PM - I work in immigration, so I may be able to answer your questions.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]

I was going to suggest, specifically, that you come to Canada - we just passed a new regulation that allows foreign students to work off-campus while pursuing their studies - so you could go to school AND earn some money - and the $$$ you will get for your house will go A LOT further in Canada than it will in the UK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Man, if it were me and I were unattached, I'd probably go for that. Fantastic life experience, and I bet the birds would go for an English accent (especially if you effect a posh one).

[mackthefork]

Hi

I don't even know if I'll get any loans, hopefully that will be the case, regardless I'm going to have to leave the area, so i can't maintain all the bills on an empty house, renting might be an option though, I will look into it.

You may be right about the A level, it won't be difficult for me though, and I have some time left to do it.

Thanks Mack

[Dave H.]

Mack,

My second son experienced the same plight. He opted to just get by all the way through high school, got the "easy living" bartender's job, made a decent living for about 8 years, and decided, at age 28, that he wanted something better. He only had an apartment, but nothing to tie him down really. He continued to work part time and scrimped by so that he could go full time to college. He wound up with a 3.98 GPA and got his Electronics Engineering degree. Two years after graduation, he's just shy of a six figure income and loving what he's doing. JUST GO FOR IT!

[vexvelour]

Just go for it man. I've always said, it doesn't matter what age you do it at, as long as you do it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck.