well I got arrested

[[censored]]

I was at my brother's place late tonight and at around 1AM I discovered my car no longer wanted to drive. Since I only live 3 miles from him I decided to walk home.

At 2AMish about 3 minutes from house a police officer pulls up next to me. Standard series of questions, only 1 problem it seems I have some old parking tickets from when I was in college about 3 years ago. It turns out the city of Corvallis frowns on such things and had put a warrant out for my arrest about a year ago.

Next thing I know I'm cuffed, in the back of the squad car and headed for a night in jail. I'll confess I was a bit concerned.

Luckily my local PD was able to contact the corvallis people who handle such things and right before I was getting booked they decided to let me off with a citation.

The cop was really cool which was a plus.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

That's really sucks that there was a warrant out for you, and you had no idea.

[smokingrobot]

i've had 2 warrants issued for me in the state of nj.

both for speeding tickets.

i live dangerously.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Go to sleep. You have work in the morning.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
That's really sucks that there was a warrant out for you, and you had no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes infact I remarked to the officer that they should really let one know about these things, perhaps by mail. He said they probably didn't have my current address.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's really sucks that there was a warrant out for you, and you had no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes infact I remarked to the officer that they should really let one know about these things, perhaps by mail. He said they probably didn't have my current address.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think you needed an engraved invitation to pay your multiple parking tickets?

[smokingrobot]

hah, thanks.

ok, sleep for 3 hrs., maybe 3.5

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Oh well, at least the cops were cool about it.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's really sucks that there was a warrant out for you, and you had no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes infact I remarked to the officer that they should really let one know about these things, perhaps by mail. He said they probably didn't have my current address.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think you needed an engraved invitation to pay your multiple parking tickets?

[/ QUOTE ]

No and I'm not complaining.

[ILL34GL3]

What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[[censored]]

basically because I was walking in a residential neighborhood at 2AM.

[KaneKungFu123]

how worried were you about losing your anal virginity in the back of that squad car?

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
how worried were you about losing your anal virginity in the back of that squad car?

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the cop. "What is the jail like? I've seen oz, am I going to kicked my ass kicked or rapped" he laughed and said "no probably not." I'm sure he meant 99.999% no but I sort of wished he had said that.

[whiskeytown]

thought sure as [censored] you were screwed with a DUI -

lucky -

RB

[ILL34GL3]

[ QUOTE ]
basically because I was walking in a residential neighborhood at 2AM.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's not a crime. Man that's bullshit.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
thought sure as [censored] you were screwed with a DUI -

lucky -

RB

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you get a DUI walking home?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thought sure as [censored] you were screwed with a DUI -

lucky -

RB

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you get a DUI walking home?

[/ QUOTE ]

by doing exactly what I did and just skimming his post and then going back and reading it again when you realized that they don't just let people off with citations for drinking and driving.

[whiskeytown]

I was referring to the initial title - when I see "I got arrested" with this group I assume it's alcohol related and ergo, DUI

didn't expect unpaid parking tkts-

RB

[TStoneMBD]

i got 2 parking tickets sometime last year and thought i could get away with not paying them. a couple months later i got a letter in the mail by the local court saying that if i didnt pay by a certain date theyd have a warrant out for my arrest.

moral of the story; i ended up paying the tickets along with expensive late fees.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's like 5 pages on this topic in B&M in one of the threads about the NYC poker club busts. I recall the answer is "no but..."

[rollingdirty]

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow i didn't know people could go to jail for parking tickets. In Houston it is a civil offense not criminal, so only the car goes to jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is untrue. If you don't pay them, you can go to jail in Houston. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[B Dids]

Getting a parking ticket may not be criminal, but being a cheap [censored] and not paying them probably is.

[rollingdirty]

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow i didn't know people could go to jail for parking tickets. In Houston it is a civil offense not criminal, so only the car goes to jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is untrue. If you don't pay them, you can go to jail in Houston. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Jake i usually agree with you but no not in Houston as in the actual city not talking about any of the small towns. It is a civil offense.

[/ QUOTE ]

O.k. we're talking about two different things here. We're both right actually. You cannot be "sentenced" to jail time for unpaid tickets. However, if you don't pay them, they will issue a warrant and you are subject to arrest. One you go to court, if you don't pay the fine, you can be jailed for contempt.

[Boris]

good for your street cred yo!

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct?


[/ QUOTE ]

It is, but there's a fine line between preventing crime and infringing on my rights. I should be allowed to walk around my neighbourhood without being stopped and questioned by police. Being stopped simply for walking down the street at night and being ordered to produce ID may not seem like all that an egregious violation of someone's rights. It's violating my freedom of movement, and I don't like that. I shouldn't need the permission of the police to walk down my street at night.

It's a slippery slope when you start allowing the authorities to take away bits and pieces of your freedoms. Where does it stop? Should I also have to submit to a search of my person if the officer demands it? After all, I could be carrying something illegal -- and we do want to "prevent crime" don't we?

Should police be allowed to search your home whenever they want to? After all, it's all in the name of preventing crime.

[ QUOTE ]
Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the old "if you have nothing to hide, what do you have to worry about" argument. As a law abiding citizen, I don't like being *forced* to have my privacy violated by the authorities.

[ QUOTE ]
If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

The cop was a dick about it. He was treating me like he suspected that I was up to no good, rather than treating me with respect. He was acting like a bully, and law abiding citizens have a right not to be bullied by the police. As for me "asking for trouble" -- do you understand how horrible that sounds? So because I bruised the cops ego by not immediately kowtowing to his demands, I'm "asking" for my rights to be violated? That's absurd.

[ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm just old fashioned


[/ QUOTE ]

No, it just sounds like you're willing to give up your rights and freedoms a little too easily for the illusion of more security.

[Steel Aces]

[ QUOTE ]
Go to sleep. You have to walk to work in the morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

BTW - pay your parking tickets you cheap bastages

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Being stopped simply for walking down the street at night and being ordered to produce ID may not seem like all that an egregious violation of someone's rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does sound eggregious to me.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

Old fashioned? I can't tell from this post. A jackass? Yes, definitely.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your freedoms have been so slowly but surely reduced in the US because of people's fear of crime, terrorism, etc... It's very sad. "Don't tread on me" has been replaced with "You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide".

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your freedoms have been so slowly but surely reduced in the US because of people's fear of crime, terrorism, etc... It's very sad. "Don't tread on me" has been replaced with "You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide".

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, you are right. Damn you Ashcroft. Oops, now I am on a FBI/CIA watch list. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Your freedoms have been so slowly but surely reduced in the US because of people's fear of crime, terrorism, etc... It's very sad. "Don't tread on me" has been replaced with "You have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide".

[/ QUOTE ]

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

[J.A.Sucker]

Rule #1: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #2: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #3: Don't talk to cops.

Get the point?

Police have every right to try to talk to you, but you don't have any obligation to do so unless you are breaking the law. By walking down the street unidentified, you are doing nothing wrong. When they ask to see your ID, politely decline and walk away. They cannot do anything to you. If there was an APB or something out for you, then you might have to talk to them, though I wouldn't anyway. If they want to arrest you, ask them why you're being arrested and then let them, but tell them you want a lawyer first. Realize that police serve a single purpose in this country: to arrest people. They don't enforce justice (that's the court's job), they don't protect people. All they do is arrest people. DON'T TALK TO COPS!

[MoreWineII]

Ew, Corvallis.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thus spake a person who has never been in jail.

Sure, you may win in court. But if they feel like it, you are going to spend the next few hours locked up. It's +EV to just explain to them why you're walking around in a neighborhood in the middle of the night.

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thus spake a person who has never been in jail.

Sure, you may win in court. But if they feel like it, you are going to spend the next few hours locked up. It's +EV to just explain to them why you're walking around in a neighborhood in the middle of the night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been in jail.

After saying that I will also say that the approach above is very dangerous in that it legitimizes the illeagal actions of the police officer who is being a dick in this situation. I'll reffer you to Jakes quote above.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Rule #1: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #2: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #3: Don't talk to cops.

Get the point?


[/ QUOTE ]

I have a few lawyer friends and that's one of the things that they've said to me on many ocassions. If you have been arrested, the cops think you are guilty. Tell them forcefully and unequivocably that you want to speak to your lawyer. It is your right, and if they tell you that things will get worse for you if a lawyer is involved, don't believe them. There's no benefit in talking to them, they will only end up using your words against you to justify your arrest. They will ignore anything that doesn't implicate you. They will act like things will go easier on you if you cooperate, but this is BS. The cops are only there to investigate the crime, they don't decide on your punishment if you are found guilty. It is up to the courts to decide on punishment.

If you actually are guilty of the crime the cops arrested you for, don't confess to the cops. If you confess to the cops, the DA (or the Crown, here in Canada) will have no reason to go easier on you as they already have enough evidence to convict you thanks to your statements to police. Have your lawyer tell you when it is time to confess so that he/she can work out a plea agreement for you.

[Alobar]

effing awesome post

[rollingdirty]

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]


Thus spake a person who has never been in jail.

Sure, you may win in court. But if they feel like it, you are going to spend the next few hours locked up. It's +EV to just explain to them why you're walking around in a neighborhood in the middle of the night.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a very sad statement. So much for your 4th amendment rights.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once. However, if I was jailed unlawfully, I can guarantee you that I would turn into the police department's worst nightmare once I was released. My lawyer friends would be getting lots of work.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What did you do to get stopped?

This is why I hate cops. [censored] randomly questioning citizens without cause is bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you obligated to provide ID to police officers in the states? I know in Canada the only time you are obligated to provide ID is if you are suspected of having committed a crime or if the cop witnessed you commit a traffic offence. Cops will give you attitude if you don't provide ID when they ask for it, but that's about it.

I had the same sort that happened to the OP happen to me a couple of years ago. I was cutting through a park on my way home from my girlfriend's house and as I exited the park a cop car pulled up and slammed on his brakes in front of me and threw his lights on. I just stood there and looked at the cop like he was a retard. He got out of the car and asked me why I was out so late. I asked him if there was a law against being out so late. He looked really pissed that I had answered his question with a question. He then asked me for ID, which was simply to intimidate me. I asked him if he suspected that I had committed a crime. The a$$hole replied "That's what I'm trying to find out". I told him that he could follow me home if he wanted, but I wasn't going to give him my ID because I hadn't done anything wrong. I was only a block from my house, and the guy actually followed behind me at 5mph the whole way, to check if actually lived in the neighbourhood, I guess.

It's one thing to be vigilant, it's totally another thing to randomly hassle people on the street, hoping that you'll stumble upon a criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thus spake a person who has never been in jail.

Sure, you may win in court. But if they feel like it, you are going to spend the next few hours locked up. It's +EV to just explain to them why you're walking around in a neighborhood in the middle of the night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been in jail.

After saying that I will also say that the approach above is very dangerous in that it legitimizes the illeagal actions of the police officer who is being a dick in this situation. I'll reffer you to Jakes quote above.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe I'm defending the actions of cops. But, part of a cop's job is checking out 'suspicious activity'. Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Kinda stating the obvious here.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but despite how obvious it is, most people choose not to follow this advice. My lawyer friends are constantly bemoaning the fact that their clients allowed themselves to be interrogated without calling a lawyer first. People either think they can talk their way out of trouble, or they believe the police when they say that "things will go easier if they cooperate". Just call a lawyer. Let him/her tell you what to do.

[ThisHo]

All good points.

[ QUOTE ]
It is, but there's a fine line between preventing crime and infringing on my rights. I should be allowed to walk around my neighbourhood without being stopped and questioned by police. Being stopped simply for walking down the street at night and being ordered to produce ID may not seem like all that an egregious violation of someone's rights. It's violating my freedom of movement, and I don't like that. I shouldn't need the permission of the police to walk down my street at night.

It's a slippery slope when you start allowing the authorities to take away bits and pieces of your freedoms. Where does it stop? Should I also have to submit to a search of my person if the officer demands it? After all, I could be carrying something illegal -- and we do want to "prevent crime" don't we?

[/ QUOTE ]

Were you carrying something illegal?

I agree that this is a VERY fine line. I think you are correct that your rights are being infringed upon here when he stops you just because you are walking around at night. You're right, it is a slippery slope .. where does it stop. How long before gun "registration" leads to "confiscation" .. how long before random stops on the street lead to random home searches. How long before "probable cause" means "he looked shady to me". No doubt that these things can happen and all under the guise of "public safety."

That said... I don't think its a huge deal for a cop to see someone wandering a neighborhood in the middle of the night and stop to ask him what he's doing/where he's going.

[ QUOTE ]



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The cop was a dick about it. He was treating me like he suspected that I was up to no good, rather than treating me with respect. He was acting like a bully, and law abiding citizens have a right not to be bullied by the police. As for me "asking for trouble" -- do you understand how horrible that sounds? So because I bruised the cops ego by not immediately kowtowing to his demands, I'm "asking" for my rights to be violated? That's absurd.


[/ QUOTE ]
"asking for it" is absurd, you're right. Poor choice of words and even if you're an ass, the cop shouldn't be. Point taken. You keep saying "bullied" / "questioned" / "he was a dick" ... at what point BEFORE you were an ass to him was he a dick?

Perhaps I'm not getting the whole picture here, but what I'm seeing is:
Cop : "Stop - what are you doing out here in the middle of the night."
You : "is it illegal to be out here in the middle of the night?"
Cop : "Alright smart ass, lets see some ID."
You : "why should I show you ID?"
Cop : "I want to know who you are and what you're doing around here at this time of night. Now get me the ID."
You : "I live around here."
Cop : "get me the ID."

I'm just thinking that if you're first answer is : "I'm on my way home from my GFs and I live 2 blocks over on XXX St" it would have gone MUCH better.

anyhow... no, he had no absolute "right" to stop you and yes its a slippery slope and yes I probably don't take this sort of stuff serious enough.

Quick Question:
what is your opinion of DUI Checkpoints? Totally illegal searches or effective prevention/deterrent/protection?

ThisHo

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, I'm sure he is.

My girlfriend got pulled over a few years ago when she was driving home at 2 A.M. A cop had been following her for some time. When she asked why the cop had pulled her over, he told her "You were driving too deliberately, and stopping too long at the last couple of stop signs. It seemed suspicious." She had to sit there in her car and wait while he went back to his car (presumably to run her information through his computer to see if there was any warrants, etc...), before he finally let her go.

So in some cases, the mere act of not acting suspicious is seen as acting suspicious.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Part of police work is PREVENTING crime, correct? Checking to see why some dude is wandering through a residential area in the middle of the night seems to fall into this category to me. I've had it done, I don't mind. I'd prefer they understand what's going on in the neighborhood rather than taking 20minutes to respond when called for an actual crime.

If the cop is a dick about it, thats a different story, but when you start a conversation with a police officer with "is it illegal to ..." you're just asking for a problem.

I guess I'm just old fashioned
ThisHo

[/ QUOTE ]

Old fashioned? I can't tell from this post. A jackass? Yes, definitely.

[/ QUOTE ]

feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not sure how "jackass" can be inferred from this post. I'm actually trying to take the arguments you and hopeydafish are putting forth seriously and I'm thinking "hmmm... perhaps I am too relaxed on this stuff," ... you calling me a jackass because you disagree with me is pretty much BS.

ThisHo

[Punker]

All I'll say about this is this. Lets say tomorrow, someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, robs you blind, rapes whatever they find, etc. The cop who comes to your house says "yep...I saw that guy wandering around in front of your house last night at 3am, looking suspicious. However, thanks to your stirring speech on civil rights, I decided to drive away and look for someone doing something instead. Tough break for you."

Will your reaction to the cop be: "Nice work."?

It takes two seconds to tell a cop "I live right there I'm on my way home". Whats the big freaking deal?

I've never had any trouble with cops simply because I bow and scrape to them like they want. They do tough work, and I appreciate it, and I'm not going to be the idiot who puffs up my chest and says "how dare you talk to me". I don't consider being asked who I am or what I am doing out in the middle of the night a huge imposition.

[mslif]

[ QUOTE ]
This is absurd. We live in a free society. Tell the cop it is none of his business (but in a polite way). You may still get arrested, but the cop will be violating your constitutional rights and you should win in court.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, cops have the right to stop and question anyone who they think has no business being there or if the situation appears out of the ordinary, like walking in a residential area at 2:00 AM when you don't live there.... It is in every state statutes.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, I'm sure he is.

My girlfriend got pulled over a few years ago when she was driving home at 2 A.M. A cop had been following her for some time. When she asked why the cop had pulled her over, he told her "You were driving too deliberately, and stopping too long at the last couple of stop signs. It seemed suspicious." She had to sit there in her car and wait while he went back to his car (presumably to run her information through his computer to see if there was any warrants, etc...), before he finally let her go.

So in some cases, the mere act of not acting suspicious is seen as acting suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

2am is drunk driver time. Cops are going to be pulling people over for all kinds of stuff around this time of night. I've been pulled over on my way home from a c*rd room at 2am for headlight out, taillight out, failure to signal a turn, etc. I know that the cop wanted to make sure the dude in the truck wasn't on his way home from the bar, the reasons were excuses.

Your GFs case is TOTALLY different and TOTALLY ridiculous. Did she file a complaint? Write her congressman/woman?

Its a slippery slope
ThisHo

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I often work till that time and live close enough to work to walk. I will also do my run at that time if I missed it in the morning. They stop me if it is a cop that is not used to me. And they always stop me if it is colder than minus 35 they say it is their job. They tell me they must offer assistance if they think someone’s life is at risk! I tell them as long as I keep moving, and not standing around talking to cops I won't freeze to death. rofl

[LeatherFace]

I think I'm on your ignore list but I'll reply anyway. I like the way you handled the sitiuation. Most ooters would get in a heated debate with the cop, worsen their situation, and the come make a post on oot titled "All cops are a vagina".

Also ,About how many parking tickets are we talking about?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not sure how "jackass" can be inferred from this post.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's because you're a jackass. /images/graemlins/grin.gif


<font color="white">you really need to loosen up. </font>

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
Rule #1: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #2: Don't talk to cops.

Rule #3: Don't talk to cops.

Get the point?

Police have every right to try to talk to you, but you don't have any obligation to do so unless you are breaking the law. By walking down the street unidentified, you are doing nothing wrong. When they ask to see your ID, politely decline and walk away. They cannot do anything to you. If there was an APB or something out for you, then you might have to talk to them, though I wouldn't anyway. If they want to arrest you, ask them why you're being arrested and then let them, but tell them you want a lawyer first. Realize that police serve a single purpose in this country: to arrest people. They don't enforce justice (that's the court's job), they don't protect people. All they do is arrest people. DON'T TALK TO COPS!

[/ QUOTE ]

so the cops sitting at the donut shop waiting for a call to go and arrest someone are actually doing what they are supposed to?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
All I'll say about this is this. Lets say tomorrow, someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, robs you blind, rapes whatever they find, etc. The cop who comes to your house says "yep...I saw that guy wandering around in front of your house last night at 3am, looking suspicious. However, thanks to your stirring speech on civil rights, I decided to drive away and look for someone doing something instead. Tough break for you."

Will your reaction to the cop be: "Nice work."?

It takes two seconds to tell a cop "I live right there I'm on my way home". Whats the big freaking deal?

I've never had any trouble with cops simply because I bow and scrape to them like they want. They do tough work, and I appreciate it, and I'm not going to be the idiot who puffs up my chest and says "how dare you talk to me". I don't consider being asked who I am or what I am doing out in the middle of the night a huge imposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll repeat this just for you.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Would I be happy if someone broke into my house? No. Would I blame the cop if it happened? No.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not sure how "jackass" can be inferred from this post.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's because you're a jackass. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
<font color="white">you really need to loosen up. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually chuckled at this BEFORE I read the hidden text... do I pass?

anyhow ... this is actually an interesting thread and you usually amuse me, so I'll try to loosen up.

ThisHo

[jdl22]

Speeding tickets?

I thought you were going to be the second dude arrested for abducting a gay sheep (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=1&amp;url=http%3A//www.fanblogs.com/oregon_state/004973.php&amp;ei=q6HzQsb7I4v6YJ2D6eEP).

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, cops have the right to stop and question anyone who they think has no business being there or if the situation appears out of the ordinary, like walking in a residential area at 2:00 AM when you don't live there.... It is in every state statutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe how many people would rather live in a police state. It's really a travesty that so many good people have died to protect our liberties only to have people willingly surrender them.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
All I'll say about this is this. Lets say tomorrow, someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, robs you blind, rapes whatever they find, etc. The cop who comes to your house says "yep...I saw that guy wandering around in front of your house last night at 3am, looking suspicious. However, thanks to your stirring speech on civil rights, I decided to drive away and look for someone doing something instead. Tough break for you."

Will your reaction to the cop be: "Nice work."?

It takes two seconds to tell a cop "I live right there I'm on my way home". Whats the big freaking deal?

I've never had any trouble with cops simply because I bow and scrape to them like they want. They do tough work, and I appreciate it, and I'm not going to be the idiot who puffs up my chest and says "how dare you talk to me". I don't consider being asked who I am or what I am doing out in the middle of the night a huge imposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the best post in this entire thread.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All I'll say about this is this. Lets say tomorrow, someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, robs you blind, rapes whatever they find, etc. The cop who comes to your house says "yep...I saw that guy wandering around in front of your house last night at 3am, looking suspicious. However, thanks to your stirring speech on civil rights, I decided to drive away and look for someone doing something instead. Tough break for you."

Will your reaction to the cop be: "Nice work."?

It takes two seconds to tell a cop "I live right there I'm on my way home". Whats the big freaking deal?

I've never had any trouble with cops simply because I bow and scrape to them like they want. They do tough work, and I appreciate it, and I'm not going to be the idiot who puffs up my chest and says "how dare you talk to me". I don't consider being asked who I am or what I am doing out in the middle of the night a huge imposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll repeat this just for you.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Would I be happy if someone broke into my house? No. Would I blame the cop if it happened? No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loosening Up:
come on Jake, you know you'd be happy if the criminal SIIYP.

arguing against you:
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

arguing with you:
if they don't take our guns then someone breaking into my house is more likely to end up dead then successfully committing the crime. If the politicians take the guns then I'm gonna blame them, if the criminal rapes/kills/robs in my house then I'm going to blame my aim.

ThisHo

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All I'll say about this is this. Lets say tomorrow, someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, robs you blind, rapes whatever they find, etc. The cop who comes to your house says "yep...I saw that guy wandering around in front of your house last night at 3am, looking suspicious. However, thanks to your stirring speech on civil rights, I decided to drive away and look for someone doing something instead. Tough break for you."

Will your reaction to the cop be: "Nice work."?

It takes two seconds to tell a cop "I live right there I'm on my way home". Whats the big freaking deal?

I've never had any trouble with cops simply because I bow and scrape to them like they want. They do tough work, and I appreciate it, and I'm not going to be the idiot who puffs up my chest and says "how dare you talk to me". I don't consider being asked who I am or what I am doing out in the middle of the night a huge imposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll repeat this just for you.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Would I be happy if someone broke into my house? No. Would I blame the cop if it happened? No.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe it's the same thing. I don't agree with a police state. I don't agree with much of the Patriot Act. I think Civil Asset Forfeiture is damn near criminal.

But I've been in the power of the cops a few times. If they want to, they can make your life pretty unpleasant for a day or so. If you think there is a prosecutor or judge anywhere in the country (I'd bet even in Berkeley or Madison, WI) who is going to fault the cops for questioning you in this situation, I think you're living in a dream world.

As I said before, IMO, for me, it's +EV not to be [censored] with by cops more than I have to be. If that takes a quick, "I live here, I had to walk home, here's my ID", that's exactly what I'm gonna do.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend got pulled over a few years ago when she was driving home at 2 A.M. A cop had been following her for some time. When she asked why the cop had pulled her over, he told her "You were driving too deliberately, and stopping too long at the last couple of stop signs. It seemed suspicious." She had to sit there in her car and wait while he went back to his car (presumably to run her information through his computer to see if there was any warrants, etc...), before he finally let her go.

So in some cases, the mere act of not acting suspicious is seen as acting suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got pulled over for a tail-light failure in high school at 1:30 AM.

After assessing that it was in fact my passengers who were drunk and not me, he let me go with "just a warning" about the tail light.

Of course... my car had a sensor that beeps and displays a message when a light is out. It wasn't on.

When I checked after I got home, the tail-lights had all miraculously fixed themselves.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend got pulled over a few years ago when she was driving home at 2 A.M. A cop had been following her for some time. When she asked why the cop had pulled her over, he told her "You were driving too deliberately, and stopping too long at the last couple of stop signs. It seemed suspicious." She had to sit there in her car and wait while he went back to his car (presumably to run her information through his computer to see if there was any warrants, etc...), before he finally let her go.

So in some cases, the mere act of not acting suspicious is seen as acting suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got pulled over for a tail-light failure in high school at 1:30 AM.

After assessing that it was in fact my passengers who were drunk and not me, he let me go with "just a warning" about the tail light.

Of course... my car had a sensor that beeps and displays a message when a light is out. It wasn't on.

When I checked after I got home, the tail-lights had all miraculously fixed themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you file a complaint?

why not? Perhaps because you didn't want to get your friends in trouble for being drunk?

ThisHo

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is this "essential"?

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Speeding tickets?

I thought you were going to be the second dude arrested for abducting a gay sheep (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=1&amp;url=http%3A//www.fanblogs.com/oregon_state/004973.php&amp;ei=q6HzQsb7I4v6YJ2D6eEP).

[/ QUOTE ]


You know I had been waiting the 3 months for you to bring that one up. nice.

Not one of the finer moments in OSU history.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he thinks the OP is black

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This should be the case regardless of which state you're from.

[[censored]]

people this is a 5 star thread.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This should be the case regardless of which state you're from.

[/ QUOTE ]

a point on which we actually agree /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is this "essential"?

[/ QUOTE ]

as long as i'm not in commission of a crime or wanted for committing a crime, i have a right to go about my business unharassed and unmolested by representatives of the government.

[IHateKeithSmart]

[ QUOTE ]
Ew, Corvallis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Such travesties would never happen down here in Eugene.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Were you carrying something illegal?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I can honestly tell you that I've never carried anything illegal in my life. No drugs, no weapons, nothing. I've lived a pretty strait-laced, law-abiding life.

This is besides the point, though. Even if I was carrying drugs, unless I'm carrying it out in the open, the cop still has no right to detain me.

[ QUOTE ]
how long before random stops on the street lead to random home searches. How long before "probable cause" means "he looked shady to me". No doubt that these things can happen and all under the guise of "public safety."

[/ QUOTE ]

My points exactly.

[ QUOTE ]

That said... I don't think its a huge deal for a cop to see someone wandering a neighborhood in the middle of the night and stop to ask him what he's doing/where he's going.


[/ QUOTE ]

Each individual infringement of an individuals rights might seem like minor annoyances, but it's the cumulative effect on society that we should be worried about. It's much easier to lose rights than to regain them.

[ QUOTE ]

You keep saying "bullied" / "questioned" / "he was a dick" ... at what point BEFORE you were an ass to him was he a dick?

Perhaps I'm not getting the whole picture here, but what I'm seeing is:
Cop : "Stop - what are you doing out here in the middle of the night."
You : "is it illegal to be out here in the middle of the night?"
Cop : "Alright smart ass, lets see some ID."
You : "why should I show you ID?"
Cop : "I want to know who you are and what you're doing around here at this time of night. Now get me the ID."
You : "I live around here."
Cop : "get me the ID."


[/ QUOTE ]

He acted like a dick right from the start. He slammed on his brakes in front of me, he threw on his lights, and he acted aggressively right from the get go. I think the slamming on the brakes and turning on the lights was to see if I would run away so that he'd have a reason to detain me. The first words out of his mouth were "What are you doing out here so late?". in a tone like he was demanding me to provide an answer, not asking for one. My response may have sounded "dick-ish", but when I asked "Is it illegal to be outside this late?", I said it with a shrug of my shoulders, and a bemused grin on my face, like I couldn't believe I was being stopped for no reason. I didn't shout it back at him, or get confrontational. However, I obviously pissed him off by not answering his question, and before I'd finished talking he was demanding to see ID. At that point I told him that I was walking home and he could follow me if he liked, but I wasn't going to show him any ID. I actually expected him to arrest me as I was walking away, by the way he was behaving.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm just thinking that if you're first answer is : "I'm on my way home from my GFs and I live 2 blocks over on XXX St" it would have gone MUCH better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Provided he believed my answer, and I don't think he would have. Again, this is besides the point, he had no lawful reason to stop me.

[ QUOTE ]

Quick Question:
what is your opinion of DUI Checkpoints? Totally illegal searches or effective prevention/deterrent/protection?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is the typical question that gets asked when debating about personal rights and freedoms. My personal feeling is that DUI checks are a violation of my rights. However, the courts have ruled that DUI checkpoints are permissible violations of our rights because the good they serve in reducing injuries and death outweighs the bad that is caused by reducing our rights in this instance. There's merit to that argument, but I still see these sorts of laws as a slippery slope.

The slippery slope is already happening, in many respects. In many states (if not all), it's legal for cops to search your car for drugs (if they are suspicious that you are carrying drugs -- ie. if you are a minority and/or you are young) if you have been pulled over for a traffic stop. They need to get a warrant if you don't submit to the search, but obtaining the warrant is really just a formality as the warrants are rubber stamped whenever a cop asks for one. Again, the courts have ruled that "The war on drugs" supercedes individual rights and freedoms.

My point is that the courts keeps expanding the ways that the state can infringe on your rights, all in the name of protecting the society whose rights they are infringing.

Since the courts have decreed that DUI checkpoints are legal, we have no choice but to go along with them and submit. I may be personally against them, but I'd be breaking the law by not stopping for them.

This is different than my example of walking down the street at night. It's legal for me to walk down the street at night. It isn't legal for me to drive through a DUI checkpoint without stopping. Regardless of my personal feelings on the matter.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is this "essential"?

[/ QUOTE ]

as long as i'm not in commission of a crime or wanted for committing a crime, i have a right to go about my business unharassed and unmolested by representatives of the government.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think giving up 3 seconds of your time is considered harassment or molestation. Now, if they wanted to detain you and question you further, you might have a case here. But how hard is it to just say "good evening, officer. I just live down the street and was coming home from work/a friend's house/a late-night walk to clear my head, etc."

I am all in favor of people not giving up civil liberties. This, however, is not one of those cases.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think giving up 3 seconds of your time is considered harassment or molestation. Now, if they wanted to detain you and question you further, you might have a case here. But how hard is it to just say "good evening, officer. I just live down the street and was coming home from work/a friend's house/a late-night walk to clear my head, etc."

I am all in favor of people not giving up civil liberties. This, however, is not one of those cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

attitudes like this are the reason we're halfway down the slippery slope.

[-Skeme-]

Some people just don't like the idea of cops violating their rights. I agree with everything Hopey has said in this thread. I hate cop's attitudes.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This should be the case regardless of which state you're from.

[/ QUOTE ]

When my family's restaurant got broken into in Arkansas, the state trooper investigator told us, "You can only shoot the guy if he's in the house. So you shoot him, then call us. If he's already out the window, shoot him, drag him inside, then call us."

[mslif]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, cops have the right to stop and question anyone who they think has no business being there or if the situation appears out of the ordinary, like walking in a residential area at 2:00 AM when you don't live there.... It is in every state statutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe how many people would rather live in a police state. It's really a travesty that so many good people have died to protect our liberties only to have people willingly surrender them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you Jake. Unfortunately there is really nothing we can do about it.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude I am not from Texas! Christ.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude I am not from Texas! Christ.

[/ QUOTE ]

HaHaHa...nice! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude I am not from Texas! Christ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't talking to you. Just not skirting the dirty word filter.

Besides, you say that like it's a bad thing.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Some people just don't like the idea of cops violating their rights. I agree with everything Hopey has said in this thread. I hate cop's attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the idea of officers violating my rights either. So if it happens, I'm going to put up one hell of a stink.

Its not happening here. Think of it this way, if someone who WASN'T an officer saw you out walking around at 2 AM and asked what you were doing out so late, what would you say? Kiss my ass? Don't think so. A simple friendly, kind explanation ends any situation without any future problems...that is, unless you've been doing something illegal.

We're not talking illegal search and seizure here. We're talking an explanation for something that certainly can look suspicious.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Some people just don't like the idea of cops violating their rights. I agree with everything Hopey has said in this thread. I hate cop's attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear on this...I'm in no way "A cop hater". There are bad cops out there, but there are also many more good ones. It is a very thankless job, and I wouldn't want to be doing it. However, I will stand up for my rights, and if a cop is abusing my rights, I will stand up for myself (lawfully) rather than submitting to his will.

If a cop keeps getting away with violating the public's rights, it will encourage him to continue doing so.

[Edge34]

Specifically, so we can MAYBE come to some kind of logical conclusion here...

which Constitutional right is being violated by a 30-second question that is simply answered?

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property. Due to their diligence, we have yet to need to install a machine gun nest on our roof.

As a human being, I'm glad that the police are willing to stop people wandering around neighborhoods at 2am. I have to imagine that a non-trivial amount of the time, said late walkers are in need of some sort of assistance.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Its not happening here. Think of it this way, if someone who WASN'T an officer saw you out walking around at 2 AM and asked what you were doing out so late, what would you say? Kiss my ass? Don't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

My response would be "Mind your own business" and I'd keep walking. Why does some stranger need to know why I'm walking down a street in my neighbourhood?

[ QUOTE ]

A simple friendly, kind explanation ends any situation without any future problems...that is, unless you've been doing something illegal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another variation of the "If you have nothing to hide, why not go along with the invasion of privacy" argument.

[ QUOTE ]

We're not talking illegal search and seizure here. We're talking an explanation for something that certainly can look suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the definition of some of the posters in this thread, *anything* can look suspicious. That's the problem. I shouldn't have to answer to anyone as to why I'm walking down a street at night. I'm doing nothing wrong, and I shouldn't have to *prove* that I'm doing nothing wrong.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property. Due to their diligence, we have yet to need to install a machine gun nest on our roof.

As a human being, I'm glad that the police are willing to stop people wandering around neighborhoods at 2am. I have to imagine that a non-trivial amount of the time, said late walkers are in need of some sort of assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT ITS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT NOT TO BE ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION!!! WHY CAN'T ANYBODY SEE HOW THIS IS CLEARLY HARASSMENT AND A VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS????

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
We're not talking illegal search and seizure here. We're talking an explanation for something that certainly can look suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

As we all know, only criminals walk around at night. I'm real sure the cops that bothered me for jaywalking were real concerned for my wellbeing. I'd say it's more along the lines of selective enforcement.

And I am not a cop hater either. I am very grateful we have them around, but they're still huge assholes. Their attitudes are terrible 99% of the time.


[ QUOTE ]
As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property.

[/ QUOTE ]

WALKING AROUND LATE AT NIGHT SHOULD NOT BE LABELED A SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY!

It's legal. I shouldn't be stopped for doing something totally within my rights as US citizen. If I am calmly walking home, it should not be a right of the officer to stop me and ask me questions. Cops have done this to me before, when I was younger, and I wasn't too bothered by it as I was like 14-15, even though my city has no curfew.


[ QUOTE ]
Think of it this way, if someone who WASN'T an officer saw you out walking around at 2 AM and asked what you were doing out so late, what would you say? Kiss my ass? Don't think so.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say, "That's really none of your business."


[ QUOTE ]
Once again, if someone can tell me precisely what right is being infringed upon here, I'd be more than happy to listen to it. Whether or not you're a "cop hater"...of all the things to get worked up about, this certainly seems far beyond trivial.

[/ QUOTE ]

My right to walk around in my own neighborhood without being HARASSED by police officers and treated like I've already done something wrong? I do not like the idea that I'm already being thought of as a criminal. It's not fun.

[Edge34]

If you would simply tell anybody who wondered what you were doing out so late to mind their own business, its not the cops who come off like assholes...

How is this an invasion of privacy? Maybe you're drunk off your ass and lost. Maybe you're scoping out a neighborhood looking for a soft break-in target. Maybe the officer is just bored and felt like some human contact would be nice.

Seriously, this isn't a violation of anybody's rights. The officers are doing their jobs. Call the ACLU, AN OFFICER STOPPED TO ASK WHAT I WAS DOING!!!

Actually, Jesse Jackson would probably be thrilled to help you with this one...

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're not talking illegal search and seizure here. We're talking an explanation for something that certainly can look suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

As we all know, only criminals walk around at night. I'm real sure the cops that bothered me for jaywalking were real concerned for my wellbeing. I'd say it's more along the lines of selective enforcement.

And I am not a cop hater either. I am very grateful we have them around, but they're still huge assholes. Their attitudes are terrible 99% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, if someone can tell me precisely what right is being infringed upon here, I'd be more than happy to listen to it. Whether or not you're a "cop hater"...of all the things to get worked up about, this certainly seems far beyond trivial.

[rollingdirty]

[ChipWrecked]

Where I grew up in the Ozarks, most (non-state) cops became such specifically so they could [censored] with people and get away with it. Our local deputy was so ignorant he literally couldn't read. That didn't stop him from pulling over us teenagers constantly to check for weed. I always hated cops.

But, in this situation, liberties or no, you just stay humble and answer the [censored] question.

[jakethebake]

I love calling them flatfoot or copper. It feels so 1930s.

[[censored]]

there seems to be alot of discussion about whether or not I should have been stopped.

A few things

the information I gave to the officer was completely by my choosing. He simply asked some id questions and I answered them.

he explained that it is a very nice neighborhood but that it has had some problems with car break ins. I know this to be true.

we talked for all of 1 minute then he left. it was at that time he ran my info than came to my house to arrest me.

I don't really like cops as I find most of them to be dicks but he was very cool the entire time. he also gave me a ride home from the police department

I dont think you understood his post.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Specifically, so we can MAYBE come to some kind of logical conclusion here...

which Constitutional right is being violated by a 30-second question that is simply answered?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I am permitted to walk away without answering the question, and without providing ID, none of my rights are being violated. However, if I am forced to answer the questions, and forced to provide ID and then wait around while my ID is processed through the cop's computer, etc... then (if I was American) my 4th amendment rights are being violated. It can be argued (and it has been argued successfully in court on many ocassions) that even if a reasonable person *perceives* that he/she has no choice but to submit to the demands of the police, even if their perceptions were erroneous, that their rights have been violated.

In a nutshell, it shouldn't be left up to individual citizens to know their rights, it's up to the police not to infringe upon them.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
And I am not a cop hater either. I am very grateful we have them around, but they're still huge assholes. Their attitudes are terrible 99% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually talked to the cop about this and asked him directly. He said that yes cops have a negative attitude him included and it bothers him alot. He said they dont start out like that but that dealing with the people they do and the stress that the job puts on him and his family causes it.

[rollingdirty]

[ChipWrecked]

Hey [censored], were you wearing a shirt? Because, you know, on 'Cops', so many of the guys who get busted aren't wearing one.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property. Due to their diligence, we have yet to need to install a machine gun nest on our roof.

As a human being, I'm glad that the police are willing to stop people wandering around neighborhoods at 2am. I have to imagine that a non-trivial amount of the time, said late walkers are in need of some sort of assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT ITS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT NOT TO BE ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION!!! WHY CAN'T ANYBODY SEE HOW THIS IS CLEARLY HARASSMENT AND A VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS????

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's my constitutional right not to have to answer the question and to walk away. I cannot stop someone from asking me the question. It's when there's the threat of arrest that comes with not answering the question (or not answering the question properly) that my rights are violated.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey [censored], were you wearing a shirt? Because, you know, on 'Cops', so many of the guys who get busted aren't wearing one.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes and the back of the squad car had a role bar thing similar to the ones found in roller coaster cars so I was unable to kick out the interior divider or any windows.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Once again, if someone can tell me precisely what right is being infringed upon here, I'd be more than happy to listen to it. Whether or not you're a "cop hater"...of all the things to get worked up about, this certainly seems far beyond trivial.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a little pissed off at the time by the cop's attitude, but I didn't get worked up about it. I'd actually forgotten all about it until this thread jogged my memory.

What I *do* get worked up about is people that don't understand that it was my right to walk away and to not answer the cop's questions. The cop let me go, despite trying to intimidate me into complying with his demands. However, it seems that a certain percentage of posters on here feel that I was totally in the wrong for walking away and/or should have been forced to answer.

[J.A.Sucker]

Yes. It is not their place to serve as peacekeepers, to evaluate the law, to evaluate your potential guilt or innocence, or anything else but to arrest people and let the court system deal with it. Getting arrested is surprisingly easy.

Your best advice is to not talk to them UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I'm not faulting police officers either, they are just doing their job. The only fault I see of this system is that the public has been fooled to believe otherwise. This is dangerous at times.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Once again, if someone can tell me precisely what right is being infringed upon here, I'd be more than happy to listen to it. Whether or not you're a "cop hater"...of all the things to get worked up about, this certainly seems far beyond trivial.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a little pissed off at the time by the cop's attitude, but I didn't get worked up about it. I'd actually forgotten all about it until this thread jogged my memory.

What I *do* get worked up about is people that don't understand that it was my right to walk away and to not answer the cop's questions. The cop let me go, despite trying to intimidate me into complying with his demands. However, it seems that a certain percentage of posters on here feel that I was totally in the wrong for walking away and/or should have been forced to answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I don't think you should be forced to answer either. But isn't it ridiculously easy to not be all defensive all the time and just say, hey, I'm going home?

No officer I've ever dealt with (and I've dealt with many through a friend) would have a problem with that, as far as I can tell. Maybe I just live in a good city?

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

It is usually a common thing that people hate cops. I being one of them. I think one thing i hear alot is they are so unedecuated and such little punks. My grand solution you can not be a cop till you are 24 and you have to have a minimum of Bachelor's Degree in something.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most places in Canada, cops are well paid, get full benefits, and a great pension. It is considered to be a good job to have. For that reason, it is very hard to get accepted onto the police force. Generally you need a College degree (in law enforcement) at the bare mimimum, but it really helps to have a University degree in Criminology.

That's not to say that bad cops don't sneak through the cracks here, but "lack of education" is generally not the cause.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property. Due to their diligence, we have yet to need to install a machine gun nest on our roof.

As a human being, I'm glad that the police are willing to stop people wandering around neighborhoods at 2am. I have to imagine that a non-trivial amount of the time, said late walkers are in need of some sort of assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT ITS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT NOT TO BE ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION!!! WHY CAN'T ANYBODY SEE HOW THIS IS CLEARLY HARASSMENT AND A VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS????

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Edge you can scream it all day long but there are some people that you just can't convince. I remember in my constitutional law class i would get so pissed because some girl would be like "whats wrong with them stopping people and asking where they are going, if they did nothing wrong they wouldn't mind" They just don't get it and never will. I used to argue all day long with simple minds i would get mad and now i realize they are just stupid and they deserve what they get...

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sarcasm detector is clearly broken...

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]

It's my constitutional right not to have to answer the question and to walk away.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, that depends on the question and the State. For example, if you are in Nevada and refuse to tell a police officer your name, you have committed a crime.

This law was found Constitutional by both the Nevada Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court (Hiibel versus Sixth Judicial District Court).

So, according to the US Supreme Court, you have no Constitutional right to refuse to answer that question and walk away.

[DonBaker]

the best thing to do if a cops , stop and ask u where your going where u came from is to RUN, run like you never run before!! After they catch you.. if he does.. tell him WTF? i have the right to run when i want, im doing my jogging!

I did it a few time before! they leave me alone now /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, I don't think you should be forced to answer either. But isn't it ridiculously easy to not be all defensive all the time and just say, hey, I'm going home?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually a fairly easy-going person. I don't go out of my way to provoke conflict. However, the cop that questioned me was being a bully, and because i knew my rights I knew that I don't have to put up with that. Had he pulled up beside me (without slamming on his brakes or throwing his lights on) and asked me "Are you okay, sir?" or "Are you heading home?" or something like that, I'm sure I would have just said "Yes, thank you" and went on my way. It would have been my right to not answer, but I would have chosen to do it on my own volition. Instead, the cop decided to bully me, so I wasn't about to be meek and let him violate my rights.

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually a fairly easy-going person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this code for Canadian?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Your best advice is to not talk to them UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally disagree with this. I got robbed once. When I found out the people who did it was the roommates of a guy who took me out of the bars, I had to have a little talk with him. When I managed to basically admit he set me up, I grabbed his head and put my knee in his face. I let him get up and recover and then went at it again. Rinse and repeat.

The next day the cops were at my door. The crook called the cops on me. I waived my rights. My lawyer said it was the best thing I could of done. He was right.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It's my constitutional right not to have to answer the question and to walk away.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, that depends on the question and the State. For example, if you are in Nevada and refuse to tell a police officer your name, you have committed a crime.

This law was found Constitutional by both the Nevada Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court (Hiibel versus Sixth Judicial District Court).

So, according to the US Supreme Court, you have no Constitutional right to refuse to answer that question and walk away.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not entirely true. The ruling stated that you must give your name if there is reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime, or are about to commit a crime. Some of you think that walking down my street at 2am is "reasonably suspicious", however I tend to think that the courts would disagree that merely walking down the street is "reasonably suspicious" -- even at 2am.

Also, the officer demanded to see ID, he didn't ask me for my name. There's a difference.

Also, the ruling was made by the Supreme Court so the law applies to the entire United States, not just Nevada. Hiibel was appealing a decision made by the Judicial District Court of Nevada. It also shouldn't be surprising that the court was split 5-4 -- the 5 Republican judges ruled on Nevada's side, while the 4 Democrat judges ruled on the plaintiff's side.

Here is a link to the article that deals with the case:

web page (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/dorf.police.id/)

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually a fairly easy-going person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this code for Canadian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Americans seem to think so. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[teamdonkey]

like most people, when i was young i hated cops to. Now i respect the profession they've chosen and the job that they do. If a cop stops you at 2am and asks you what you're doing, i understand the constitution protects your right to be a jackass here. That shouldn't make it your default behavior.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
the best thing to do if a cops , stop and ask u where your going where u came from is to RUN, run like you never run before!! After they catch you.. if he does.. tell him WTF? i have the right to run when i want, im doing my jogging!

I did it a few time before! they leave me alone now /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Reach into your jacket like you're grabbing a gun, too. Cops love those kinds of jokes.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
like most people, when i was young i hated cops to. Now i respect the profession they've chosen and the job that they do. If a cop stops you at 2am and asks you what you're doing, i understand the constitution protects your right to be a jackass here. That shouldn't make it your default behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it really sound like I was the one being a jackass?

[ChoicestHops]

Well, technically you don't have to answer the cop's questions. However, it's his word against yours and he knows this. If you tell him you have nothing to say and continue walking, he will and most likely make up probable cause. There will be no evidence to back up your claims.

Some of the smartasses think they can protect their right to privacy when a cop asks to search their car. Well, what happens when he "thinks" he smells weed? Now he has suspicion and the right to search your vehicle.

But parking tickets? That's not a big deal. Most likely why the cop even gave you a ride home.

[Sifmole]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is a cop stopping you at 2am in a residential neighborhood to see what you're up to really giving up an "essential liberty"?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], almost forgot. You're from Texas. If pedestrian breaks into your house, you blow his head off. OK, cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a motor vehicle operator breaks into your house you have to worry about it falling down. I don't own a gun, but if I did and a pedestrian ( but certainly not a vehicle operator ) broke into my house I would have little qualm with shooting them. WhyTF are they breaking into my house? They need a drink of water?

So, all those of you who think it is brutally and horrible unjust for a police officer to stop someone walking a neighborhood street at 2am and who have someone in their lives that actually greatly care about ( the SO ); I propose the following scenario:

A cop reports after their shift that they noticed two individuals walking through your SOs neighborhood at 2 am. These individuals were not known to the officer. However, they were not at that time commiting any offense so they were left alone; the officer logs a detailed description of the individuals.

The next day your SO is found raped and murdered in their home, but enough evidence is found to locate the perps. It turns out the perps were the 2 individuals mentioned --- the confess to being in the neighborhood, seeing the officer, and match the detailed description.]

How long will it take you to dial a lawyer and sue the crap out of the local police department?
1 second
1 minute
5 minutes ( because the phone was already in use )

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, what happens when he "thinks" he smells weed?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had so many cops "think" they smell weed in my car it wasn't even funny. I used to drive a shitbox and I would get pulled over all the time for no reason at all.

[ChoicestHops]

[ QUOTE ]
I've had so many cops "think" they smell weed in my car it wasn't even funny. I used to drive a shitbox and I would get pulled over all the time for no reason at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

He stereotyped you for whatever reason. He made up probable cause to search your vehicle. Happens all the time. Cops do not respect constitutional rights that cant be proven were broken.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, technically you don't have to answer the cop's questions. However, it's his word against yours and he knows this. If you tell him you have nothing to say and continue walking, he will and most likely make up probable cause. There will be no evidence to back up your claims.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sad but true. I guess you can only hope that someone has a video camera running nearby when he bulls out his nightstick and claims you are "resisting".

[ QUOTE ]

Some of the smartasses think they can protect their right to privacy when a cop asks to search their car. Well, what happens when he "thinks" he smells weed? Now he has suspicion and the right to search your vehicle.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again, sad but true. Basically your argument is that if cops can't violate your rights one way, they'll find a way to violate them another. This actually sort of agrees with some of the points I was making earlier, but also adds a degree to futility to bothering to stand up for your rights.

[ThisHo]

[ QUOTE ]
He acted like a dick right from the start. He slammed on his brakes in front of me, he threw on his lights, and he acted aggressively right from the get go. I think the slamming on the brakes and turning on the lights was to see if I would run away so that he'd have a reason to detain me. The first words out of his mouth were "What are you doing out here so late?". in a tone like he was demanding me to provide an answer, not asking for one. My response may have sounded "dick-ish", but when I asked "Is it illegal to be outside this late?", I said it with a shrug of my shoulders, and a bemused grin on my face, like I couldn't believe I was being stopped for no reason. I didn't shout it back at him, or get confrontational. However, I obviously pissed him off by not answering his question, and before I'd finished talking he was demanding to see ID. At that point I told him that I was walking home and he could follow me if he liked, but I wasn't going to show him any ID. I actually expected him to arrest me as I was walking away, by the way he was behaving.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given this info, I hope that you'll allow me to retract previous statements about you being an ass. Please note that I did preface it with "perhaps I'm not getting the entire picture". It becomes much more understandable why you acted as you did.

I still don't think its a big issue for a cop to ask you what you're up to at 2am, but I do see the point about eroding freedoms AND clearly this cop was an ASS!!!!

[HopeydaFish]

People that argue for curtailment of civil rights always come up with the most extreme examples of what will happen if they aren't allowed to violate your rights. The raping and murdering of women is usually at the top of their list of arguments. In other words, if I don't support the police randomly detaining people in the streets for questioning, I support the possibility of your loved ones getting raped and murdered.

What if the rapist lives in the neighbourhood? And when the cops question him as to where he's going, he says "To the store to buy some cigarettes, and then straight home". So the cops let him go and then he goes and rapes and kills your wife. Turns out he wasn't really going to the store.

I guess a better solution is to just make it illegal to be outside after dark? That way you won't have to worry about all those rapists and murderers prowling the streets, laughing at the inability of the police to question them.

I guess if you have a valid reason for being out at night, you can apply to the government to get a special pass to show to the police when you're stopped. Don't forget the pass at home, though! Otherwise they'll assume you're a rapist out on the prowl.

Or you can just lock your doors at night and put in an alarm system if you're really that worried about all the murdering rapists out there. That is, if you can see your way to doing that rather than forcing the rest of us to lose our civil rights because of your paranoia.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I'd prefer to be thrown in jail unlawfully than to give up my personal freedoms, even just once.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a property owner, I'm glad that the police are willing to investigate suspicious activities that may cause harm to my property. Due to their diligence, we have yet to need to install a machine gun nest on our roof.

As a human being, I'm glad that the police are willing to stop people wandering around neighborhoods at 2am. I have to imagine that a non-trivial amount of the time, said late walkers are in need of some sort of assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT ITS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT NOT TO BE ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION!!! WHY CAN'T ANYBODY SEE HOW THIS IS CLEARLY HARASSMENT AND A VIOLATION OF OUR RIGHTS????

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Edge you can scream it all day long but there are some people that you just can't convince. I remember in my constitutional law class i would get so pissed because some girl would be like "whats wrong with them stopping people and asking where they are going, if they did nothing wrong they wouldn't mind" They just don't get it and never will. I used to argue all day long with simple minds i would get mad and now i realize they are just stupid and they deserve what they get...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Edge is trying to be sarcastic, but his premise is dead wrong so it just sounds dumb.

Now, do you realize this, and are playing along to point out how stupid he's being, or are you seriously trying to side with his attempt at being facetious?

~D

[smokingrobot]

i know i have an unpaid parking ticket from NYC from like, 2 years ago.

i wonder if i have a warrant out for me there?

i never received any written notice.

im sureprised they didnt put a judgement on you and went striaght to a warrant over parking tickets.

i also had about 500 bucks in tickets at University of MD (perhaps more) that i never paid and never plan on paying.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
i know i have an unpaid parking ticket from NYC from like, 2 years ago.

i wonder if i have a warrant out for me there?

i never received any written notice.

im sureprised they didnt put a judgement on you and went striaght to a warrant over parking tickets.

i also had about 500 bucks in tickets at University of MD (perhaps more) that i never paid and never plan on paying.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll be the next person taken down on "Dog The Bounty Hunter" /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Edge34]

Well played Duke, except for one important fact that you forgot...

WHAT CIVIL RIGHT IS BEING VIOLATED HERE?

Jesus H. Christ, if one person could give me an honest, supportable answer here, I wouldn't have a problem. I've asked multiple times, and the best I got back was "if they detain you" then its a 4th Amendment thing.

So since you're so goddamn smart, why don't you tell me which Constitutionally-guaranteed right is being violated here.

I guess you'd rather spend your time coming into a thread to be a douche, and nothing more.

[Pat Southern]

[ QUOTE ]
. Walking through a residential neighborhood in the middle of the night is pretty damn suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if he was dressed like this. http://jimac.tripod.com/toys/mcdonalds/mcdlndhamburgler.jpg

[HopeydaFish]

Oh, I forgot to mention in my original post that this was exactly how I was dressed. I guess that changes things, eh? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
how worried were you about losing your anal virginity in the back of that squad car?

[/ QUOTE ]

I always knew you liked guys since stuff about anal virginity interests you, it's why you are in Thailand right?

Lawrence

[Pat Southern]

Well my pic of the hamburgler didn't come up so you'll have to use your imagination.

[HopeydaFish]

Or just cut and paste the path to the image into your browser.

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well played Duke, except for one important fact that you forgot...

WHAT CIVIL RIGHT IS BEING VIOLATED HERE?

Jesus H. Christ, if one person could give me an honest, supportable answer here, I wouldn't have a problem. I've asked multiple times, and the best I got back was "if they detain you" then its a 4th Amendment thing.

So since you're so goddamn smart, why don't you tell me which Constitutionally-guaranteed right is being violated here.

I guess you'd rather spend your time coming into a thread to be a douche, and nothing more.

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't really have to name anything here. The majority of Constitutional rights are unenumerated. Agents of the government have no power except that expressly stated / ruled upon.

I have unpaid parking ticket from about 2 years ago.

[KowCiller]

"Fuck da PO-lice"

-Easy E

[Sifmole]

[ QUOTE ]
People that argue for curtailment of civil rights always come up with the most extreme examples of what will happen if they aren't allowed to violate your rights. The raping and murdering of women is usually at the top of their list of arguments. In other words, if I don't support the police randomly detaining people in the streets for questioning, I support the possibility of your loved ones getting raped and murdered.

What if the rapist lives in the neighbourhood? And when the cops question him as to where he's going, he says "To the store to buy some cigarettes, and then straight home". So the cops let him go and then he goes and rapes and kills your wife. Turns out he wasn't really going to the store.

I guess a better solution is to just make it illegal to be outside after dark? That way you won't have to worry about all those rapists and murderers prowling the streets, laughing at the inability of the police to question them.

I guess if you have a valid reason for being out at night, you can apply to the government to get a special pass to show to the police when you're stopped. Don't forget the pass at home, though! Otherwise they'll assume you're a rapist out on the prowl.

Or you can just lock your doors at night and put in an alarm system if you're really that worried about all the murdering rapists out there. That is, if you can see your way to doing that rather than forcing the rest of us to lose our civil rights because of your paranoia.

[/ QUOTE ]

You straw-manned me, I said none of the things you attributed to me. I asked a question. You of course avoided answering it entirely.

[HopeydaFish]

The scenario you described is the most extreme example of what can go wrong if the police don't stop to question everyone who is walking around after dark. I thought your question was rhetorical, plus the answers you provided didn't include "I wouldn't sue at all".

I might very well sue the police, but it wouldn't be because they did anything wrong. It would be because I would be so consumed with grief that I would be irrationally looking to blame someone for my SO's death.

[MyMindIsGoing]

Why did the police even pull up to you, he could hardly have recognized you from a warrant... Must be a very strange place if you can't even walk home in the middle of the night without hassle.

[SparkyDog]

what part of the ozarks did you grow up in?