Some Atlantic City Rules For Discussion

[Jeffage]

Please discuss your feelings on these.

Thanks,
Jeff

General

-A new rule from the gaming commission indicates that it is no longer acceptable to plug games by announcing open seating (it is apparently "soliciting.") The Taj got nailed for this recently even though it has been standard practice in AC and the poker world for years. So now, say they start a new 50-100 game at Taj and 5 people show up...they can't say, "Open Seating, 50-100 Hold Em" and if they run through a list of names with no one claiming a seat, they can't say "Open Seating" at the end of them. I think this rule is bad for players...if people are in a casino, they are open to the idea of gambling.

-Cash must be broken into chips. Bills play but must be converted (they can't be dragged into a pot and the bettor gets change). This makes for MANY fills and a slower game, particularly in games of 20-40 and above.

-Straddling is not allowed (I think it should be)



Taj Specific
-One chip short is a string raise. If you accidentally put out 75 to raise the turn in 20-40, you will be forced to only call. I think half the amt required to raise should be enough (Borg does this). Also, at Taj...some of their dealers vehemently enforce this, some don't.

Borgata Specific
-Time is sometimes charged to players who sit down ten minutes into a down. They are real sticklers at this...obviously, anglers should be nailed, but charging someone full time for half a down and waiting ten minutes to drop time b/f a seat is filled?

-Minimum Buy Ins at High Limit Games: At 40-80, the buy in is $1000. At 80-160, $2000. Sitting down, I'm ok with this. But one short buy in should be allowed...if someone is buried in the game 5k, no one should forbid them from trying to win it back with their last grand in an 80 game. This might cause bad blood and someone not to return.

[poker327]

The general rules:

The first is stupid, I am fine with the other two.

[RollaJ]

Much like the government, if these idiots didnt think up new rules, there would be a lot of people out of jobs

[Bremen]

General rules: Obviously the no plugging is quite ludicrous. Maybe they could do an "information bulletin" every half hour telling people how long the lists are/aren't? There must be some way around this; one would hope.

I hate having paper on the table so I am quite fine with breaking bills. I also get quite annoyed when dealers sell higher denomination chips to me if I rebuy (what can I say I like lots of chips :0). If they'd just enforce the rule that the first buyin has to come from the window we wouldn't have anywhere near so many fills.

Straddling: I've never played anywhere that allows a live straddle so I don't really have an opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
Taj Specific
-One chip short is a string raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
If it was consistently enforced it wouldn't be so bad. That said I would prefer the half bet rule, but as I almost always verbally declare raises it would rarely affect me.

[ QUOTE ]
Borgata Specific
-Time is sometimes charged to players who sit down ten minutes into a down.

[/ QUOTE ]
Complaining about having to pay time seems very nitty to me.
Its annoying, but you're paying for a service. If you don't like the price you should try and find a cheaper service. The showboats flat $5 time charge looks quite appealing in this respect. I hope their midlimit games take off.



I do have one of my own. I don't know if its the whole of AC or Borg specific. Last week I was playing 10/20 and one player went allin for 15 on the river. The next player wanted to raise and was told he had to complete to 20 first!? Very bad rule IMHO. Floor actually wasn't sure (ruled he had to complete to 20 anyway), later he came back, after checking the rulebook, and confirmed the ruling.

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
Complaining about having to pay time seems very nitty to me. Its annoying, but you're paying for a service. If you don't like the price you should try and find a cheaper service. The showboats flat $5 time charge looks quite appealing in this respect. I hope their midlimit games take off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with time charges. I pay thousands a year in them. The problem comes from floor people intentionally not droppping the time until a seat is filled, sometimes as deep as 10 or 15 minutes into the down. Time should be dropped on the half hour. No casino that I've ever been to outside of there charges a player who comes in after the down has been going for a bit. It's petty to me (in fact I've seen 84 bucks dropped by ONE DEALER at a Borg 20 game - two players had left 10 mins into down, two replaced them and they were also charged bc time hadnt been dropped).

[ QUOTE ]
I do have one of my own. I don't know if its the whole of AC or Borg specific. Last week I was playing 10/20 and one player went allin for 15 on the river. The next player wanted to raise and was told he had to complete to 20 first!? Very bad rule IMHO. Floor actually wasn't sure (ruled he had to complete to 20 anyway), later he came back, after checking the rulebook, and confirmed the ruling.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just a poor ruling. Since the bet was more than half the amount required, a raise must be $20 more (making the bet 35 total). I would ask for the shift manager in this instance bc the ruling is CLEARLY wrong and can ultimately change the result of the hand (since someone may not have called the raise otherwise).

Jeff

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
I would ask for the shift manager in this instance bc the ruling is CLEARLY wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
Except he said he checked the rule book and confirmed it. One of the old nits also insisted this was the rule. I might believe the floor person to be covering for himself and not admitting to a mistake but I'd never bet against a nit when it came to house rules.

[onegymrat]

Hi Jeff,

No Soliciting - This new rule sounds silly. Granted, at your 50/100 table, nobody will "stumble" by and sit down because the brush coaxed you into it. But for many newbies, hearing the 1/2 or 2/4 seat open can help direct them to what they came in for.

Bill/Chips I like this rule. I play in LA and many of these dealers are barely intelligent enough to figure out the rake, let alone make change.

Straddling I think this is a part of the game, like check-raising.

Taj Specific If the intention is to raise, regardless of how many chips, this should be allowed, unless action is past the player already. My problem with this stems from bad dealers again. It's that too many inconsistencies out there that makes rules that are black and white too gray.

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would ask for the shift manager in this instance bc the ruling is CLEARLY wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
Except he said he checked the rule book and confirmed it. One of the old nits also insisted this was the rule. I might believe the floor person to be covering for himself and not admitting to a mistake but I'd never bet against a nit when it came to house rules.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree completely. However, each casino can theoretically have their own set of rules, even if they are ludicrous. Both Robert's Rules of Poker and my nifty Commerce Casino Rulebook agree with what we think. Sorry...I have copies in the car. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[CCx]

The first general rule is asinine. The no-straddle rule is also in that category.

[Mike Gallo]

Jeff,

A new rule from the gaming commission indicates that it is no longer acceptable to plug games by announcing open seating (it is apparently "soliciting.") The Taj got nailed for this recently even though it has been standard practice in AC and the poker world for years. So now, say they start a new 50-100 game at Taj and 5 people show up...they can't say, "Open Seating, 50-100 Hold Em" and if they run through a list of names with no one claiming a seat, they can't say "Open Seating" at the end of them. I think this rule is bad for players...if people are in a casino, they are open to the idea of gambling.

I guess the Borgata can no longer announce $10-$20 open seating in the middle of the night on Friday nights anymore. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

This rule makes no sense to me at all.

I stopped playing at the Borgata because of this reason..
Time is sometimes charged to players who sit down ten minutes into a down. They are real sticklers at this...obviously, anglers should be nailed, but charging someone full time for half a down and waiting ten minutes to drop time b/f a seat is filled?

One night we got down to 5 handed play and had 8 seats filled. Two of the players were about to get picked up for missing too many downs. We balked because they wanted to charge full time. I used my negoiating skills to get half time however the floor almost did not budge.


One chip short is a string raise. If you accidentally put out 75 to raise the turn in 20-40, you will be forced to only call. I think half the amt required to raise should be enough

Horrible rule. I verbally declare my actions because of this rule.

Minimum Buy Ins at High Limit Games: At 40-80, the buy in is $1000. At 80-160, $2000. Sitting down, I'm ok with this. But one short buy in should be allowed...if someone is buried in the game 5k, no one should forbid them from trying to win it back with their last grand in an 80 game. This might cause bad blood and someone not to return.

Do the dealer really enforce this? I have seen players in the $10 game lose everything go into their pocket for their last $75 and the dealers let them play.

What do you think of only allowing three raises?

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
Do the dealer really enforce this? I have seen players in the $10 game lose everything go into their pocket for their last $75 and the dealers let them play.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is enforced in the blue and yellow games. Players seem to have an irrational fear of being "hit and run."

I think there should be four raises allowed...forgot that one. But I doubt that will ever change. I'm surprised no one else is annoyed by dealers having to break bills...it is a big ass pain. I suppose it is in place so big game (300-600, etc) players can't play with mostly cash and avoid reporting thresholds. But many players play lots of paper and it can become a big pain in the ass when the rack gets low.

Jeff

[afish]

Regarding the minimum buy ins -- those numbers seem high. The minimum at 20-40 is $200, and I'm pretty sure it is 5BB at every lower limit. Why is the buyin higher at 40-80 and 80-160? I have no problem with a rule against a less than 5BB rebuy, but a 12.5BB rebuy seems a little high.

The ban on open seating announcements is lame.

I have no problem with changing cash to chips. I disagree that it creates lots of fills, particularly if there are green chips in the rack. Now that folks buy chips at the cage, there really aren't many fills.

I don't care about straddling.

The Taj string bet rule is annoying.

[Jeffage]

The high buy in rules only apply to the Borg 40-80 and 80-160 games. The regulars demanded it. Look at the table signs if you don't believe me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jeff

[MicroBob]

the rule on no announcements is about as stupid as it gets.


the rule on no-straddles is pretty dumb too.


at some of the tunica rooms (can't remember which one/s) you can even 'mississippi straddle' which is a live-straddle from anywhere on the table (not just UTG).

i forget how exactly this works.


i'm mostly indifferent on hte live-straddle thing.


the no-announcement thing is incredible to me though.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The first general rule is asinine. The no-straddle rule is also in that category.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually for some odd reason they permit stradding at the Resorts poker room. The floor told us the no straddling rule was a myth. I was also recently told that the Borg never got permission to spread draw games.. isn't that ridiculous? Of course they spread them anyway when the big games come to town.

CCC announced another new rule that went into effect a week ago last thursday. In games with antes, the blinds can no longer chop, the blinds must play out the hand.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Bremen]

[ QUOTE ]
CCC announced another new rule that went into effect a week ago last thursday. In games with antes, the blinds can no longer chop, the blinds must play out the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm a bit deft, but what games have blinds and antes? Were we allowed to chop in tourneys???

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CCC announced another new rule that went into effect a week ago last thursday. In games with antes, the blinds can no longer chop, the blinds must play out the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm a bit deft, but what games have blinds and antes? Were we allowed to chop in tourneys???

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me... I didn't mean to say blinds, I don't often talk about games with antes so my terminology sucks. Bring in, and one to the right of the bring in can no longer chop in Stud games.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[ QUOTE ]


-A new rule from the gaming commission indicates that it is no longer acceptable to plug games by announcing open seating (it is apparently "soliciting.")



[/ QUOTE ]
What can possibly be the rationale or benefit of this rule. Soliciting? Your in a CASINO / POKER ROOM TO PLAY CARDS. What is the purpose of the Taj besides gambling???

[TheBusiness]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Complaining about having to pay time seems very nitty to me. Its annoying, but you're paying for a service. If you don't like the price you should try and find a cheaper service. The showboats flat $5 time charge looks quite appealing in this respect. I hope their midlimit games take off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with time charges. I pay thousands a year in them. The problem comes from floor people intentionally not droppping the time until a seat is filled, sometimes as deep as 10 or 15 minutes into the down. Time should be dropped on the half hour. No casino that I've ever been to outside of there charges a player who comes in after the down has been going for a bit. It's petty to me (in fact I've seen 84 bucks dropped by ONE DEALER at a Borg 20 game - two players had left 10 mins into down, two replaced them and they were also charged bc time hadnt been dropped).

[/ QUOTE ]

Casinos and floor people pull crap like this all the time though. I wholeheartedly agree with you that its petty, but don't think that its limited to AC or the Borgata in particular. At the World Series this year, I was playing in a 50/100 ring game, and they would switch the dealers every 20-25 minutes and charge us time every switch. So we were getting shorted 5-10 minutes of time per dealer for several hours. Eventually we called the floorperson over and had a big argument w/ him before it got worked out in our favor. And I have seen similar things happen in casinos from the west coast to atlantic city. Its all over the place.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do the dealer really enforce this? I have seen players in the $10 game lose everything go into their pocket for their last $75 and the dealers let them play.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is enforced in the blue and yellow games. Players seem to have an irrational fear of being "hit and run."

I think there should be four raises allowed...forgot that one. But I doubt that will ever change. I'm surprised no one else is annoyed by dealers having to break bills...it is a big ass pain. I suppose it is in place so big game (300-600, etc) players can't play with mostly cash and avoid reporting thresholds. But many players play lots of paper and it can become a big pain in the ass when the rack gets low.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]


the times I played 20/40 at the Mirage, they always broke the bills whcih was pretty annoying

[Glenn]

Those rules are horrible obviously. All of them. The chips is the worst I think. I have no idea why any player would agree with that. I don't play at the Taj because I hate it there, but the Borg buyin rule seems odd. I haven't played there much in the last few months, but before, most of the regulars were very non-nitty. I guess some of the Vegas-type players (a-holes, if you don't speak poker), are filtering over to the Borg, and there are a lot of nitty low limit players taking shots. The people that are actually responsible for getting those games going and keeping them going (especially the 80) seem to be a lot of the younger guys who wouldn't be bothered by that sort of thing, but Borgata management has a horrible bias against anyone under 30 so i could see how the rule was implemented.

[NutzyClutz]

-Straddling is not allowed (I think it should be)
I straddled at the Trop in June. Is this new?

[poker327]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the purpose of the Taj besides gambling???

[/ QUOTE ]

The great food and the inviting decor. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
-Straddling is not allowed (I think it should be)
I straddled at the Trop in June. Is this new?

[/ QUOTE ]

You always could straddle, but it is not live. This is not at all new.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-Straddling is not allowed (I think it should be)
I straddled at the Trop in June. Is this new?

[/ QUOTE ]

You always could straddle, but it is not live. This is not at all new.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just there last week, and they refused to call it a straddle, just a "blind raise." As TT said, it's not live -- it is as if you acted having looked at your cards.

BORING.

[magoo]

"Plugging games" Gaming Commission should reconsider that one. It's absurd.

"Straddling" Players adding a straddle changes the game in a fundamental way, which is not in accordance with the game as adverstised by the joint, and game description on the table.

If you were to see what has become of "straddling" in some rooms you would understand. If the joint claims to be spreading 10/20 or 20/40 and have excluded "straddling" in game descriptions to the Commission and the public, they are involved in deception with respect to the wagers / bets.

Then, you have the on-going problem of table arguments and disputes, because the joint has no rules covering angles of straddling players bring from their rec rooms, to the poker room. "Let's play no peepng" with a straddle, dealer."

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]

-A new rule from the gaming commission indicates that it is no longer acceptable to plug games by announcing open seating (it is apparently "soliciting.") The Taj got nailed for this recently even though it has been standard practice in AC and the poker world for years. So now, say they start a new 50-100 game at Taj and 5 people show up...they can't say, "Open Seating, 50-100 Hold Em" and if they run through a list of names with no one claiming a seat, they can't say "Open Seating" at the end of them. I think this rule is bad for players...if people are in a casino, they are open to the idea of gambling.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if this makes a difference in anyone's feelings, but --

If you peer over the counter at the Taj's podium, you'll see a little note on the board that says something like "DO NOT SAY 'OPEN SEATING.' SAY 'NO BOARD.'"

So it seems like this solves the problem, no?

[cookieb]

They were calling out open seats at the Bogota this weekend, not sure if the word has gotten around or if the Borg just said screw it

[tpir90036]

I think all of the rules are horrible. I don't really care about the straddling rule one way or the other but I can see where some nits might think it changes the posted structure of the game significantly or whatever.

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]
General

-A new rule from the gaming commission indicates that it is no longer acceptable to plug games by announcing open seating (it is apparently "soliciting.") The Taj got nailed for this recently even though it has been standard practice in AC and the poker world for years. So now, say they start a new 50-100 game at Taj and 5 people show up...they can't say, "Open Seating, 50-100 Hold Em" and if they run through a list of names with no one claiming a seat, they can't say "Open Seating" at the end of them. I think this rule is bad for players...if people are in a casino, they are open to the idea of gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

What idiot at the NJCCC came up with this beaut?

[ QUOTE ]
Cash must be broken into chips. Bills play but must be converted (they can't be dragged into a pot and the bettor gets change). This makes for MANY fills and a slower game, particularly in games of 20-40 and above.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what, the person is all-in with cash on the table? Sounds as if it opens an angle shot opportunity. I'd normally think this rule was okay, but I don't like it as is.

[ QUOTE ]
-Straddling is not allowed (I think it should be)

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming you mean live straddling. Why are you in favor, other than the obvious?

[ QUOTE ]
Taj Specific
-One chip short is a string raise. If you accidentally put out 75 to raise the turn in 20-40, you will be forced to only call. I think half the amt required to raise should be enough (Borg does this).

[/ QUOTE ]

Really stupid and creates an angle shot. Anyone know why the Taj added this?

[ QUOTE ]
Borgata Specific

-Minimum Buy Ins at High Limit Games: At 40-80, the buy in is $1000. At 80-160, $2000.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the lower limits are allowed 5x the big bet, why not the higher games? If the mins were $500 and $1000, then I could agree

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]

So it seems like this solves the problem, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

The fundamental problem of stupidity hasn't been solved, no