MTTs as an snger...

[Mr_J]

I've been wanting to get into MTTs. My plan is to play a MTT or 2 a day. I'm 6tabling until I get another 1600x1200 (overlap for 8tabling makes me have to play in sets, which doesn't give me any more tournies an hr than 6tabling continuously). So the plan is to start up a MTT, and then have 5 sngs of the same buyin running. Eg I play $55s so play $55s for MTTs as well. If I bust out of a MTT early then start a new one, if I get deep into one then I maybe play less sngs during that time.

The MTT would force me to play more than 1-2hrs. Playing sngs would keep variance low and maximise hourly rate. Hourly rate would increase since MTTs are worth more per table.

Better reads are more important in MTTs so obviously I'd be paying more attention to that table than the sngs.

Also, this setup would be more efficient in starting new tables, as you don't have to start MTT very reguarly. The EV this adds is marginal, but EV is EV.

Opinions/experiences??

BTW, the MTTs forcing me to player longer sessions is hugely +EV for me. Instead of being happy with a 3hr session I will probally be averaging 5hrs+ a day, which I should be anyway since this is my job /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[lorinda]

From my own experience, which is just experience and not the result of much thought, I found the MTT too tiring, too much varience and generally too much of a lot of bad things to make it worthwhile.

I do play some MTT's, but these are usually on days where I can't face a SNG and have no bonuses that need ironing out.

Lori

[lacky]

I like mtt's /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mr_J]

Well in terms of hourly rate, I wouldn't need to do that well in MTTs to at least achieve the same as I would just 6tabling sngs. I'd probally do about the same if the average MTT lasted 2.5hrs and I hit 50% ROI.

I think the most important effect would be the much longer sessions I'd be putting in. I'm happy to earn $5-$10 less in hour if it forces me to put in longer hours.

I played a MTT for 2hrs yesterday (busted around 5 short of the money when my QQ ran into 99 and AJ preflop. Seemed fine. No worse than sngs. Variance should be fine since I'm still relying on sngs. Difference would be that most days I earn slightly less and have the occasional big day.

Best thing is probally to try it out and see how it suits me. I think the "MTT forcing me to play" part of it will fix me when it comes to putting in the hours.

[bmxreed36]

My word of advice would be not to let the two different strategies for each seep into the other while you are playing both. For example, playing overly tight early in the MTT and playing more hands like limping in with speculative ones in SNG's.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Seemed fine. No worse than sngs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how exactly you compare here MTTs and SNGs, but variance in MTTs is completely crazy. It doesn't mean you can't make a lot of money playing them, but if you're going to do it constantly, you must prepare to having LONG streaks of winning very little if anything at all. This is not comparable to SNGs, IMO. Running bad on MTTs is an expirience out of this world.

Don't get me wrong, I love MTTs and play them, but I think one has to be realistic about it, otherwise it's a pure gamble.

[Mr_J]

I don't mean variance isn't worse, Lorinda just say she finds them mentally draining etc. I just meant mentally I didn't feel any worse than playing sngs for a few hours.

It's not like I'm playing MTTs full time. Just have one running whenever I'm playing along with 5 sngs. I'll probally stick to $20-$30 MTT range for now, meaning that I usually just lose $20-$60 a day. Not very noticable when you throw in the results of 40 sngs a day.

[theordinaryboy]

I find the bad beats harder to take as you can play perfectly for 2-3 hours build up a nice stack and then some little bugger comes and busts ur KK with a3 and ur out. Its not so much the money lost or the potential money lost its the time and effort put in.

But then again i'm not very good at mtt's.

[PrayingMantis]

Well then I certainly agree with Lorinda that it can be mentally draining at times. Significantly more than SNGs, IMO, since obviously when a bad-beat busts you at a SNG you open another, but a bad-beat at a critical spot of a MTT can really make you hate poker for a while. You can't open another, so all you can do is hate poker...

There's a huge amount of frustration in MTTs, uncomparable to SNGs. But when you take first place or on a general final-tables hot run, there's nothing quite like it... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I wish you all the luck of course.

[lacky]

this is very true. I had a period of about 3 weeks in june where I was top 5 in chips about 15 times without getting past 5th once. I think your plan to play one or 2 a day is perfect. I played only mtt's during that 3 weeks in june and it was more frustrating than anything else i've done in poker.

i'm back to playing about half my time in mtt's, other half in high limit games, but thats cause i'm on a rediculous hot run. when it gets back to normal I plan on playing 3 or 4 a day, basically the two big ones on stars and party each night and 2 others starting about the same time. then if i bust early i'll go play other stuff.

one thing that effects your earning calcs some is when you get into the money in mtt's, it gets exciting, and you won't want to start any sng's, so you will end up staring at one table for an hour or more. on the plus side though, 100%+ ROI is very doable long term in mtt's.

Steve

[freemoney]

for the 100+% ROI you mean as a MTT right?

[lacky]

yep, fixed it, thanks.

it's early.....

Steve

[Paul Thomson]

if the variance in multitable tournaments is so high, then how are some people able to be at the top the the card plalyer player of the year award consistently? i'm not being confrontational, it's an honest question. i would think you could play so many more tournaments online compared to what a pro can play live in a year. thanks for your help.

[lacky]

well, those stats are from a year of play. online you could probably have reasonably average results in a 3 month span. the problem is you live it day by day. going day after day, week after week with lots of money going out and none coming in when it is your income is really, really hard.

Steve

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the bad beats harder to take as you can play perfectly for 2-3 hours build up a nice stack and then some little bugger comes and busts ur KK with a3 and ur out. Its not so much the money lost or the potential money lost its the time and effort put in.

But then again i'm not very good at mtt's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same way. I've found though that playing a few sngs or cash games at the same time helps to reduce my susceptibilty to tilt. When just 1-tabling an mtt, it be extremely frustrating to play your best for 3 hours and walk away with just your buyin, when you could be making much more playing sngs.

[benza13]

[ QUOTE ]
if the variance in multitable tournaments is so high, then how are some people able to be at the top the the card plalyer player of the year award consistently? i'm not being confrontational, it's an honest question. i would think you could play so many more tournaments online compared to what a pro can play live in a year. thanks for your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, while some people might have a good year, or 3 or 4, they will also have a bad one thrown in every once in a while. Look at Daniel Negreanu for instance. He killed tourneys for a couple years and has done NOTHING this year in them. If you are making your money just from MTTs you need to realize that you will go through long stretches sometimes without making any money, or making double your buy in back a few times (which is basically the same as making nothing). A 30 buy-in downswing isn't uncommon for SNGs, I wouldn't be surprised to see 100 buy-in downswings (or more) in regular MTT play.

[Mr_J]

If BR wasn't an issue and you didn't have to rely on it as an income, would you primarily play MTTs?? Is the stress factor caused by financial issues or just an ego/mental thing?

Next year I'll be back into sportsbetting but am thinking about using 20-30k to multitable MTTs, provided I'm pretty good. I'd want to play $100s and $200s. I guess I could always work hard enough on my sng game to get me to steps & higher buyin stars sngs as well.

Thing I don't like about stars is that they don't have enough NL MTTs. I can't play limit, potlimit, or stud & omaha/8.

[suited_ace]

Moneywise you need to prepare yourself for the higher variance that comes with MTTs. You can spend a *lot* of time without having a significant payday. I think this is a sine qua non for all the rest, because if you're not mentally prepared for the bigger swings, don't even try it in the way you're planning it.

There's another aspect which is the difference in how you play those. In many ways STTs and MTTs are two different animals. I'd do a search in the MTT forums for STTers that asked for advice on how to adapt their play. I remember seeing a few very good posts on the subject.

You then have to be able to play MTTs while playing 4 other STTs, and that can prove to be quite a difficult thing to do.

That set aside, MTTs are a whole lot of fun, I really miss it sometimes, so enjoy it!

[Mr_J]

"I'd do a search in the MTT forums for STTers that asked for advice on how to adapt their play. I remember seeing a few very good posts on the subject."

Ba$tard, you just kept me up an hr (it's 5am here now). On the other hand I got pulled into alot of Irie, mcpherzen, curtains and strassa posts and probally just learnt more about poker than I have in the last few months (this is probally the first good read I've had in that time).

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the bad beats harder to take as you can play perfectly for 2-3 hours build up a nice stack and then some little bugger comes and busts ur KK with a3 and ur out. Its not so much the money lost or the potential money lost its the time and effort put in.

But then again i'm not very good at mtt's.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the main reason I like to keep the buy-in low when I play MTTs. I don't want to blow half my SnG profits in a day on a MTT entry, especially since you need to go really deep for a big payday. I have had many 11th-20th places and they don't pay all that much compared to the effort. And placing 1st-3rd where the real money is happens pretty rarely.

I like to play the Pokerstars 10+1s with fields of 1500 players. If I bust out it is no big deal. If I am a big luckbox it is a very good payday.

[lacky]

yeah, if i won the lottery tomarrow i'd mostly play mtt's. playing 6 to 8 tables of sng's and limit is a great job, but it stopped being "fun" a long time ago. But, the reality is I am the sole source of income for my wife and 4 girls, so if I go a couple weeks without income, I worry, even if I have enough $$ around that I shouldn't.

Most of us that play lots of mtt's have accounts all over because they all have tournies that are decent. go here and do the tournement search

http://www.bonuswhores.com/poker-tournaments.php