Line Check: Probably Uninteresting KK 5/10NL

[fimbulwinter]

Folded to me on CO, I (2K) make it 35 with black KK, solid button (covers) calls, blinds fold

JJ3 three suits (80)

I check, he checks

T now two hearts on board (80)

I bet 80, he makes it 200, I call

K now three hearts on board (480)

I bet 250

fim

[pokerjoker]

I like it.

[ryanghall]

If he doesn't have a Jack, I don't think he's going to call on the river - (unless he has AA or runner runner flush which are both unlikely).. He may raise on a bluff if he's the type of person to raise blocking bets. If he does have a Jack, he'll call a lot more than that. For that reason, I don't like this bet. I think you can pot it here.

Ryan

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
If he doesn't have a Jack, I don't think he's going to call on the river - (unless he has AA or runner runner flush which are both unlikely).. He may raise on a bluff if he's the type of person to raise blocking bets. If he does have a Jack, he'll call a lot more than that. For that reason, I don't like this bet. I think you can pot it here.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

what amount do you think maximizes the earn from the hand range you described?

fim

[whittiphil]

I usually bet the flop here, can you explain why you didn;t? Do you always check in EP when there's a pair on board and you have TP or overpair? If he'd bet the pot on the flop what would you have done?

[ryanghall]

Hm. I just read that he's solid and didn't pick that up before.

Maybe a pot sized bet is too much... but I think you can bet a little bit more than this.. but perhaps not much.

Did you not bet the flop so that you could control pot size?

Ryan

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Hm. I just read that he's solid and didn't pick that up before.

Maybe a pot sized bet is too much... but I think you can bet a little bit more than this.. but perhaps not much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may be missing a major consideration in the river bet size...

[ QUOTE ]
Did you not bet the flop so that you could control pot size?

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

betting the flop here against the vast majority of players is bad. what hand calls that i beat? what hand folds that I'm behind?

fim

[ryanghall]

Is the major consideration on the bet size is that you're feigning weakness and hoping he comes over the top of you?

[MINETZ]

i think pot betting the river is good, if hes a solid player his hand range is 22,tt, jx and rr flush draw, random bluff. If you pot it on the river it seems likely hes going to look you up if not raise 22,tt, jx, and rr flush. And hes going to muck anything else to a smaller bet just as quick as he would to a pot size bet.
Noah

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the major consideration on the bet size is that you're feigning weakness and hoping he comes over the top of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo. given the turn action esp.

fim

[jonnyUCB]

does that mean you'd do the same on the turn/river w/ KK unimproved?

I kind of like a ch/r on the river here. Do solid players raise blocking bets often? Wouldn't a check ensure more action from a flush/jack/bluff?

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
does that mean you'd do the same on the turn/river w/ KK unimproved?

[/ QUOTE ]

really depends on the river card.

[ QUOTE ]
I kind of like a ch/r on the river here. Do solid players raise blocking bets often? Wouldn't a check ensure more action from a flush/jack/bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno about that. i think he checks a lot of hands behind here given the K river.

fim

[TheWorstPlayer]

I like it, too. Small enough for him to call with a marginal holding, and he may come over the top with a flush or possibly even trips. Definitely coming over the top with a smaller boat.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the major consideration on the bet size is that you're feigning weakness and hoping he comes over the top of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo. given the turn action esp.

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this. From his perspective -- why would you be making a blocking bet here? You basically did a stop-and-go... call the turn, lead the river. This play seems to have a tendency to shut people down.

Also, the river made a backdoor flush and straight, and KJ now beats AJ with a boat. Has this player been making thin value raises on the river? If not, I don't see too many hands that he's raising here.

It's very likely that if he has a lower boat, you're getting his stack no matter what you bet on the river... so we should be worrying instead about the other cases, no? I think most of the hands that call $250 on the river will call $400 or $500.

edit: oops, had pot size wrong in my head, fixed river bet amts

[ QUOTE ]
I usually bet the flop here, can you explain why you didn;t? Do you always check in EP when there's a pair on board and you have TP or overpair? If he'd bet the pot on the flop what would you have done?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to hear fim's response to this question as well (as I often find myself inflating the pot with big pairs). When I first read this thread, I was particularly interested in how hero would have reacted to a 1/2-full pot bet from villain on the flop.

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