hands from last night #4

[bad beetz]

This time these hands are live. $6/$12 very loose Artichoke Joe's.

HAND 1

EP (decent), MP (weak tight) limp. I raise on button with JJ

Flop comes [AsQc7d] rainbow.
Check, check, check

Turn comes [AsQc7d][Ks]
Check, bet, I raise.

HAND 2

UTG Live stradles, EP1 (decent), EP2 (unkown) coldcall, I three bet UTG + 4 with AQo. WPE (worst player ever) coldcalls behind me, BB calls. six to the flop for 18 SB.

Flop comes [Ks3c2d] rainbow. Checked to me I bet. BB folds, rest call.

Turn comes [Ks3c2d][Th]
Player to my right bets, I feel there is little risk of being raised here. I call getting allot:1.

HAND 3

6 Handed, I raise two good limpers on the button with KQo.

Flop comes [KsQcJd]
Checked to me I bet, both call.

Turn comes [KsQcJd][9d]
Checked to me I check.

River comes [KsQcJd][9d][8s]
Checked to me, I bet, EP folds, MP raises, I call.

(see results and comment on his play which I think is good but have doubts)

HAND 4

UTG + 1 (horrible new player being introduced to the game, he is aggressive) raises. I coldcall with AQo in cutoff, WPE coldcalls in SB so he obviously has two cards higher than 3

Flop comes [Ac8s9s]
WPE checks, EP bets, I call, WPE calls.

Turn comes [Ac8s9s][4d]
WPE checks, EP bets, I call, WPE folds.

River comes [Ac8s9s][4d][Td]
EP bets, I call.

[bad beetz]

1. they both fold, I scoop my only "tricky" pot of the night feeling particularly proud of my move. I had checked on the button with Aces full earlier in the night, and these players both had seen it.

2. river is a jack, booyah. I bet and get a call.

3. I found this to be the most memerable hand of the night. The decent player Steve (worm) checked his made straight (ATo, his flop call is definately debatable) on both the turn AND the river, knowing probably that I couldn't resist betting my either AK or KQ on that dangerous board when checked to twice. I like his play and I think I may use it in the future). Being checked to twice made me feel almost positive that my hand was good. When raised, I paid off as well.

4. He had AJo, I scoop. I did not want to reveal I had an ace and stop TT, JJ, etc from betting, while also saving myself money against AK. I don't know if this was correct with the moron in, he would have probably coldcalled a flop raise with undercards to the flop, so maybe not raising was a mistake.

[CrackerZack]

Hand 1, horrible flop for you, terrible turn, fold. WT bets into you on the turn and you raise? There are 3 over cards. You're drawing to 5 outs at best.

Hand 2, seems fine although a raise isn't out of the question when the Q hits

Hand 3, pre-flop I like the raise to knock out the blinds and you have position. Bet the turn, and find out about the straight there. If called on teh turn I'd check behind on the river.

Hand 4, ugh. Cold calling with AQo is terrible. If he's LAG and bad, 3-bet him and make this play heads up. Ok, you forgot to raise to isolate, flop has an ace, raise here... ok, you forgot to raise here, how about the turn? Uh oh, we're at the river and never got an idea of where we stand. This wasn't good.

[bad beetz]

I still like my play on hand 4 although you think it was terrible, here were my thoughts:

UTG raises, several folders to me and I see the BB ready to muck. WPE is coming allong for any amount of bets (he doesn't fold preflop) The LAG will just cap it if i three bet. I have three options preflop:

1. fold, I don't like this as I can get many many bets against the LAG if I like my flop (he went 3 bets on the turn with JJ when the board was A88)

2. coldcall and have it three ways for two bets

3. raise and have it three ways for four bets


on the flop:
LAG could be betting KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AJ, AT, and also a range of hands that beat me. If I raise, I reveal I have an ace and get will get clobbered with bets from anything that beats me, but against me he might even muck big pocket pairs which I want to discourage by calling.

I'm not worried about WPE's call, he could have QJ or 44 there's no telling.

my only regret was not raising the river. Maybe this is wrong, you're probably right that I should have raised SOMEWHERE. [censored], if I go with my instinct that I have the LAG beat preflop, I probaly should have TRIED to get it three ways for a 5 bet cap.

also, on hand 3? If I bet the turn do I have to fold to a raise cause I don't have outs. Although, when I get c/raised on the river I still called. that hand made me angry. I can't decide between betting and checking the turn.

[marbles]

"3. I found this to be the most memerable hand of the night. The decent player Steve (worm) checked his made straight (ATo, his flop call is definately debatable) on both the turn AND the river, knowing probably that I couldn't resist betting my either AK or KQ on that dangerous board when checked to twice. I like his play and I think I may use it in the future). Being checked to twice made me feel almost positive that my hand was good. When raised, I paid off as well."

FWIW, I hate his play here. He's counting on way too many unknowns here by check, check, checking. As you implied, he absolutely has to checkraise the flop. After that, he ran a very real chance of not winning another dime on this made hand.

To your point, once he checked the turn, checking the river is probably best, provided he KNOWS you can't have AQ or AJ. But the clever river check hardly makes up for the atrocious flop check-call.

[CrackerZack]

This contains more info about the player but I still don't like hand 4.

[1. fold, I don't like this as I can get many many bets against the LAG if I like my flop (he went 3 bets on the turn with JJ when the board was A88) ]

and

[LAG could be betting KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AJ, AT, and also a range of hands that beat me. If I raise, I reveal I have an ace and get will get clobbered with bets from anything that beats me, but against me he might even muck big pocket pairs which I want to discourage by calling.]

seem to contradict each other. He went 3 bets with JJ on a A88 flop, you have an ace, you want him to go three bets again with these hands. Pre-flop you don't raise because he's LAG and will just cap (which i can understand but with your position on LAG, this isn't a huge problem). But on the flop you're afraid he's gonna turn weak-tight (possibly correct-tight) and fold his pocket pair because someone raised him. That's not the play of a LAG player. And this hand has draws out there, so its not like you're certainly way ahead or way behind. LAGs could raise EP with JTs, Axs, etc. If he's on a draw you need to punish him and if he lays down a big pair in the process...them the breaks. Just my thoughts, but as my sig says...what do I know?

As for hand 3 I think you can safely fold to a raise with the 4 straight on board as 2 solid limpers having a T seems very possible to probable and you won't be getting the odds to draw to your 4 outers. He's daring to check the river also after you checked behind on the turn. If you missed spade draw he gets nothing and your play was consistent with that as well as a good pair.

[haakee]

I don't like Steve's play on hand 3 either. He needs to bump it up on the flop -- it's in the "playing zone" (i.e. probably hit somebody's hand). Somebody like you is likely to raise it on him. And when I'm in his position I absolutely hate letting people with an ace (or 10) get a cheap(er) shot at chopping the pot with me.

But what do I know? I dropped a rack and a half to those suckers at AJ's last night.

Are you talking about the Steve who's a white guy like 45-50 years old and always seems grumpy who's at AJ's frequently? He's not *good*, but he's not bad either. He's a bit too loose pre-flop (42s in LMP?), and overly tricky against the typically crappy 6-12 lineup.

BTW, I would often bet the turn on hand 3, and I'd want to raise somewhere on hand 4.

[cferejohn]

Hmm, didn't know so many 2+2ers played at AJs 6-12. Now that I'm playing online, I've sworn off 3-6 there since the rake is so high, and the 6-12 plays pretty similar. Maybe we should have some kind of secret 2+2 sign that identifies us to each other.

...or maybe you'd rather I didn't know who you are.