Early AQ decision

[TheSalche]

No reads on this hand ... am I right to raise PF, or do I just check to see a flop?
Seat 1: FLOJOE81 (985)
Seat 2: stacynlj (775)
Seat 3: AK_NOR (1515)
Seat 4: ttuman06 (1130)
Seat 6: AceTooL420 (690)
Seat 7: TheSalche (795)
Seat 8: italiaplaya (805)
Seat 9: TiltinHotel (610)
Seat 10: sskurp (695)
AceTooL420 posts small blind (10)
TheSalche posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheSalche [ Qs, Ac ]
italiaplaya calls (15)
TiltinHotel folds.
sskurp folds.
FLOJOE81 calls (15)
stacynlj folds.
AK_NOR folds.
ttuman06 folds.
AceTooL420 calls (5)
TheSalche raises (60) to 75
italiaplaya folds.
FLOJOE81 folds.
AceTooL420 raises (485) to 500

I folded there ... but take a look at this other hand, which IMO and with the other stuff I saw, makes the villain look like a donk.

Seat 1: FLOJOE81 (850)
Seat 2: stacynlj (675)
Seat 3: AK_NOR (1485)
Seat 4: ttuman06 (1670)
Seat 6: AceTooL420 (1055)
Seat 7: TheSalche (705)
Seat 8: italiaplaya (745)
Seat 9: TiltinHotel (565)
Seat 10: sskurp (250)
FLOJOE81 posts small blind (15)
stacynlj posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheSalche [ 4s, 2d ]
AK_NOR folds.
ttuman06 folds.
AceTooL420 calls (30)
TheSalche folds.
italiaplaya folds.
TiltinHotel folds.
sskurp raises (135) to 135
FLOJOE81 folds.
stacynlj folds.
AceTooL420 raises (270) to 300
sskurp calls (115)
sskurp is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $545 with sskurp
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7h, Qs, 8d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jc ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 8c ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 545 | Side Pot 1: 50
Board: [ 7h Qs 8d Jc 8c ]
FLOJOE81 balance 835, lost 15 (folded)
stacynlj balance 645, lost 30 (folded)
AK_NOR balance 1485, didn't bet (folded)
ttuman06 balance 1670, didn't bet (folded)
AceTooL420 balance 1078, bet 300, collected 323, net +23 [ Tc As ] [ a pair of eights -- As,Qs,Jc,8d,8c ]
TheSalche balance 705, didn't bet (folded)
italiaplaya balance 745, didn't bet (folded)
TiltinHotel balance 565, didn't bet (folded)
sskurp balance 272, bet 250, collected 272, net +22 [ 9h Ac ] [ a pair of eights -- Ac,Qs,Jc,8d,8c ]

pushes a guy all in with A10? I don't know if he knows the value of hands cause of this one ... given that read would you still fold to the reraise from the first hand?

[bluewilde]

I still fold the first one. Even if this guy is a donk and plays AT sooo ulgy-like, I think it's too early to start the "I call you cause you suck" mentality. You may have him dominated, but I don't think it's worth risking it yet. You have plenty of time to find a situation where you know you're ahead or you're under more pressure to make a move (i.e. you'll play better than him over the long run, so pick a better spot).

AQ is a great "save your ass at the end of a tournament" hand. But calling an all-in early like this is asking her to do too much, IMO. Just cause villain is an idiot doesn't mean he can't have AK or a pair. In fact, his (virtual) all-in reraise feels very much like a mid-pair, which isn't terrible for you, but you don't want a race like this early.

Because AQ is a fairly vulnerable hand in spite of how attractive it looks, I wouldn't raise PF here. You're OOP with 2 limpers behind you (after the flop, that is) and another in front of you. Most flops miss you, and then you'll have to act second (if SB calls) or first (if the other limper(s) call and SB folds) in a potentiall multi-way pot /images/graemlins/frown.gif. And by building the pot preflop, it will be harder to get away from it when you hit but it's weak (you get a Q, but there are potentially straights/a K, or you hit an ace but the board is monotone). So yeah, in better position or later in the game, I'd raise, but not here.

[TheSalche]

fair enough ... but what about the possible theory that by raising PF here and being forced to fold i saved money if i was up against KK or AA and i flopped my queen?

[tigerite]

I wouldn't raise AQo (usually) from the blinds. I would from the button last to act if all limpers to me. I also would raise TT+, AK. But AQo is like 99 and just on the borderline for me.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
fair enough ... but what about the possible theory that by raising PF here and being forced to fold i saved money if i was up against KK or AA and i flopped my queen?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, because when someone limps EP, it means they have AA or KK.

Check. You can play with more info on the flop, and you might hit a monster hand, in which case, it'd suck to be raised out of a pot.