I am a calling station

[Ghazban]

Villain is new to me; 2nd orbit at the table and hasn't done anything worth mentioning. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 Hero (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($187.95)
UTG+2 ($257)
MP1 ($188)
MP2 ($187.60)
MP3 ($172)
CO ($267.65)
Button ($68.60)
SB ($260.05)
Hero ($272.26)
UTG ($257.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $2, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($10) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($10) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8, UTG folds, MP3 folds, Button folds.

River: ($26) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $20</font>, Hero calls $20.

Final Pot: $66

[Voltron87]

booooo, you lose money here

[AllIn3High]

Just fold the turn unless you've seen SB bet into 4 (!!) people with something you beat here.

[DyessMan89]

I think on the turn you have to either raise or fold. Just calling with 2nd top pair like you did leaves many questions on the river. Raise the turn, fold to a re-raise.

[taran]

I think that your line is ok. I would fold the turn against an unknown and 3 ppl behind.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
I think on the turn you have to either raise or fold. Just calling with 2nd top pair like you did leaves many questions on the river. Raise the turn, fold to a re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think raising here is bad with 3 people left to act and a marginal hand. If I'm playing I'm taking OPs line.

Raising doesn't fold out worse hands and there is no reason to build a pot.

[Ghazban]

The issue here is that I strongly felt my hand was good on the turn (don't ask me why, just a feel thing) but raising is clearly wrong as it lets worse hands get away and better hands to call/reraise. Once it gets to heads up, I have the same problem on the river. The big bet was not an instant call but I did call it expecting to win.

I hated playing it this way, but saw no other options. Does everybody else instantly fold the turn?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Does everybody else instantly fold the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]



pretty much


the fact that he was sb explains his flop check to me

[Ghazban]

So what do you put him on?

[Voltron87]

a king. my thought about the sb was "well maybe if he was betting from position he might have a draw or the like" but that is very unlikely.

what do you put him on that you beat?

[taran]

[ QUOTE ]
Does everybody else instantly fold the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much.
I would call river too, expecting to win. Hero played it as a missed (somewhat donkish) flash draw.

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you put him on?

[/ QUOTE ]

A weak king, some sort of semi-strong king that missed a check-raise on the flop.

Of course it could be 2 pairs or a flush draw.

Given that you called the turn I'm calling the river as well since nothing has changed to the worse.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
a king. my thought about the sb was "well maybe if he was betting from position he might have a draw or the like" but that is very unlikely.

what do you put him on that you beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

A worse 9, a 4, or a diamond draw. Not that those are the only possibilities as he could also have me beat with a weak king or something that missed a checkraise on the flop (two pair, set).

[Voltron87]

very thin in such a big field. i fold.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Does everybody else instantly fold the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

SB may have a weak king which he could have been checking...he may have been planning a c/r with a set or something on the flop...3 people left behind me to act (which to me is the sticky point), with hero's call almost pricing them in for one of the two flush draws on the board...I just fold and find a better spot...I think you are trailing more than you are ahead here.

[Ghazban]

I think folding the turn is probably the best play and, if I didn't have a weird feeling my hand was good, I would have. I almost folded to the river bet second-guessing my instincts but ended up calling. Villain had 64o and MHIG. I usually fold this but started thinking that might be a bit weak after turning 2nd pair and nobody showing interest (making top pair less likely).

[Voltron87]

good instincts, i do this too occasionally, but its not a good idea without a read.

[kurto]

I think these kinds of calls are very player dependent (as all hands are) but often your hand is good.

There's a very common pattern I see... EP players hit bottom or middle pair. When its checked through, they realize it missed everyone and bet. Quite often 2nd pair (especially with a good kicker) will win.

The OTHER pattern (which I've been guilty of) is the bb has a hand like K2.. gets to see the flop for free, and with a large field, knows that if anyone else has a king, their kicker sucks. The fun thing about this is if lower cards fall, the bb now feels his hand is best, and lower pairs now think they're in play.

Considering the checked flop, this is a reasonable place to be a calling station.