Big stack confrontations- hand analysis

10$ SNG @ UB - - Any feedback regarding this hand is greatly appreciated.

Here we go


Hand #7479526-30 at Oak Creek (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 03/Aug/05 10:47:54

Avitar is at seat 0 with 3980.
purduepete is at seat 1 with 2330.
HERO is at seat 2 with 4095.
tommy46 is at seat 3 with 1515.
HMSKicks is at seat 5 with 725.
SilverQ is at seat 7 with 1305.
flipdipper is at seat 8 with 1050.
The button is at seat 8.

Avitar posts the big blind of 40.

Avitar: -- --
purduepete: -- --
FouTight: Ac Qd
tommy46: -- --
HMSKicks: -- --
SilverQ: -- --
flipdipper: -- --

Pre-flop:

purduepete folds. FouTight raises to 80. tommy46
calls. HMSKicks calls. SilverQ folds. flipdipper
calls. Avitar calls.

Flop (board: 2s 4h Ad):

Avitar checks. FouTight checks. tommy46 checks.
HMSKicks checks. flipdipper bets 400. Avitar raises
to 1600.

I go into the tank. What do I do? Avitar is 2nd in chips, and I am the chip leader.

[tigerite]

I would have led out on the flop personally. Then folded to the raise. As it is, you probably are beat, I'd let it go.

I also wouldn't have raised preflop, especially not this bloody min-bet nonsense, either!

I know that the fact that I tried to get tricky here and check the flop gives me no read on the validity of this raise. That and the fact that its against the 2nd chip leader made me very uncomfterbal (sp?)- loosing this hand would cripple me compeletely.

[tigerite]

Weird seat though. Seat 0? Maybe he's a secret agent..

[Jbrochu]

This looks like a deeper stack site, so I don't think you have to take the Party mentality with A,Q in EP - especially at a 7 handed table.

I don't like your mini-bet pre-flop. At a 7 handed table with one fold in front of you go ahead and pop it up to 3 or 4x the BB.

After the flop (and assuming only 1 caller), I would lead out with about a 2/3 pot bet. If you get re-raised you can probably lay it down knowing you're beat.

You would still have about 3,600 chips, so you're still in great shape.

There was 5 people in on the flop, so i was pretty sure someone would take a stab at it, and then I would reraise them- but someone beat me to it!

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
There was 5 people in on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I don't like the preflop miniraise. Popping it up with a meaningful pre-flop raise would most likely have narrowed the field and given you a better idea of where you were at.

[ QUOTE ]
i was pretty sure someone would take a stab at it, and then I would reraise them-

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had played the hand the same way you did preflop, I would almost always bet out at the flop to try and 1) take the pot down right there, or 2) at least define my hand a little bit.

The way you played it, you have almost no information to act on except the two cards in your hand.

Given all this, what do you? Raise, call or fold?

Given the mess you got yourself into (no offense, I'm a donkey myself), I'd fold and move on. Still in fine shape.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
Given all this, what do you? Raise, call or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point I'm trying to get across is that it's very difficult to make a decision here, but by making better decisions leading up to this point, you can avoid the frequency of finding yourself in a spot like this and/or simplify the decision-making process when you do end up in these situations.



Assuming I had played this exactly like you did to this point, here is how I would go about trying to make a smart decision. These are not in order of importance.

- This is a $10 SnG. (lean towards pushing)

- How did Avatar become the big stack? Did he make some shrewd plays and cleverly extract chips - or make a donk move or two and get lucky? Have you seen him play hands like A,10 strongly...? (donk, lean towards push; clever player, lean towards fold)

- Anybody playing Ace little has either two pair or a straight draw. Based on the pre-flop action, could somebody be holding this right now? (Answer is yes, lean towards folding.)

- If I push, get called, and lose how does that effect my stack? If I fold right now what shape am I in? (lean towards fold)

- Anybody left to act, how many, and have they shown strength? (answer is several, and yes at least one willingly bet into several players, lean toward fold)


I never call here, it's either push or fold. Based on what I know, I fold.

Can I ask you a question? What did you hope to accomplish with the mini-raise? Did you have a strategy there, or did you just plop it on out there with no plan in mind?

Ty for the reply Jbrochu.

[ QUOTE ]
The point I'm trying to get across is that it's very difficult to make a decision here, but by making better decisions leading up to this point, you can avoid the frequency of finding yourself in a spot like this and/or simplify the decision-making process when you do end up in these situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totaly agree, I will try to avoid this situation in the future.

[ QUOTE ]
How did Avatar become the big stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not sure how he become the other big stack at the table due to the fact that I am playing while at work, so my attention is limited in the early rounds.

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask you a question? What did you hope to accomplish with the mini-raise? Did you have a strategy there, or did you just plop it on out there with no plan in mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes! Ask me alot of questions, thats why I post here. The reason why I min-raised was to make the others think I was
being loose due to all my chips. The previous hand I had just won a huuge pot with my AA vs JJ to a check flop of J95 and then all ins when the A hit the turn. So, maybe people would have thought that I was loose because I just won alot of chips. I guess it was to cammouflage the strength of my hand (although, now that I write this down I feel sorta donk-ish for thinking that way ...). I agree that I played this hand badly from the get-go and I will post the results in my next reply.

I actually think to almost the timer runs out, trying to convince myself to fold it as a set, or 2pair is very likely, but decide that the raise might be a steal attempt with a less then great hand (everyone had checked to the last to act, who took his sweet time then bet the pot- it smelled real weak), so I decided to push ALLIN. Everyone folds to Mr 2nd in Chips who calls with AJ. I take down the pot and own half the chips of the tournement by hand 30. Sweet.

I go on to win the tourney for a nice 39$ profit.

I must say however that I was lucky beyond beleif in this SNG. Got AA twice, KK once and flopped a set vs a overpair. I would have been really ashamed if I didnt win this tourney. Thanks for all the replies, 2+2 owns!

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to push ALLIN. Everyone folds to Mr 2nd in Chips who calls with AJ. I take down the pot and own half the chips of the tournement by hand 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice result! Just don't fall into the trap of confusing a nice result with a good decision, or vice versa. When I first started playing I made some sharply -EV plays and got lucky, which long-term turned out to be hazardous to my bankroll!

Congrats on your win.

Thank you, and yes I do realize that this was a bad call on my part, which resulted in +$$ for my bankroll.

Makes me think of my first ever real live tourney: 40$ buyin, 20$ rebuys: 83 people total. I was such a newbie that when the Tournement Organizor asked <<Any questions?>> before starting up the game, I actually raised my hand and asked: <<Whats a rebuy? Whats a Addon?>> LoL.

I rebuy later, I was in the groove and doin well. At the time I was in love with low suited connectors ( I had just read SuperSystem) and raised with them everytime, in any position.... on 3 seperate occasions I won with flushes when I was clearly behind, one of them coming on the first hand of the final table in a 3-way allin. I figured most were better then me, and my best shot at winning the tourney would not be by out-playing them, but getting lucky (i still think that was the smartest strategy for me at the time) /images/graemlins/smile.gif... I called with my flush draw and was chip leader by 3x as much as 2nd in chips. I went on to win the 8hour marathon for 2300$ in my first ever tourney. Before that, I used to play for 5-10$ with my friends. What a great day that was. To this day, that is still my biggest take ever.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
I went on to win the 8hour marathon for 2300$ in my first ever tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's awesome, and similar to my first couple of stabs at live events. I had been watching WPT and WSOP for a couple of years, and this past Dec. started playing at work during lunchtime using monopoly money.

I went out and purchased HoH 1 in January, which is how I found 2+2, and I also started playing on-line at that time. In March, I gained my first live experience playing my way through a series of Satellites at Foxwoods culminating in playing at a final table of an ACT III with Raymer and cashing on a $5,200 ticket to the main event (along with Raymer).

My luck box was in high gear in the ACT III but in a different manner than you. I was super tight (playing party $10 + $1 guidelines) early and caught all the right cards in the right situations!

(P.S. - got smoked in the ME)

Nice one!! (whats a ME??)

[Jbrochu]

ME = main event

[Mr_J]

I raise to 120-150 preflop.

Read on avitar??

I think checking that flop is fine. When avitar reraises to 1600 I auto push knwoing I'm ahead as this is a $10.