Flop a set. Line check. Party $22.

[Raiser]

After reviewing this hand, I really feel like I butchered it in so many ways.

My thoughts:
1) Preflop-Table had been pretty tight, so I thought there was a pretty good shot I could take the blinds here. Plus this raise is just about right for SB to try and re-steal with a push (he would be giving me ~1.75:1 if it gets folded to him and he pushes). This same thought goes for the button as well.
2) Flop-Sweet. I think the best way to get all in here is to bet out and hope that he has a K and comes over the top.
3) Turn-Hmm, he just called the flop bet. At the time, I felt that this meant he really liked his hand, so I was trying for a turn C/R here hoping he has AK, KQ, or KJ. Didn't work.
4) River-Finally got all it, but don't feel quite as good about it at this point.

How's my line? Where do you differ? How's my thought process?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1900)
Hero (t1545)
MP (t3230)
Button (t705)
SB (t620)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, MP calls t150, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (t375) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, MP calls t150.

Turn: (t675) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (t675) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to t600</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1245 (All-In)</font>, MP calls t645.

Final Pot: t3165

[xLukex]

I can't think of all that many hands that he would check on the turn with...

Anyways, the flop bet is fine, a little larger would be alright.

I can see your reasoning for the check-raise, but you have to determine for sure whether or not villain is on a drawing hand. You don't want to give drawing hands that will call a bet free cards.

The river, I don't know what villain has...some donkish hand? 99? Anyways, your line isn't all that bad, but it would've been better had you put villain on a hand.

[tigerite]

I did something similar yesterday. Ended up letting him fill a straight for free, and went broke. Oops.

[Raiser]

Do you still like the line?

[tigerite]

Yeah. Mine was more donkish. Something like Q T x (I had TT) and turn was an A. Why I didn't get it all in then I don't know. I checked hoping he had AQ but he didn't so checked behind, and the river was a J. Doh! He of course had KQ.

[durron597]

Preflop: Fine.

Flop: I bet a tiny bit more, a K or a J will call more than that.

Turn: Fine.

River: Lead - Fine. I don't like pushing over the top of his raise. Either he has garbage or a hand that beats yours. Just call.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
but it would've been better had you put villain on a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, my original post wasn't that clear about this, but I really felt that villain's most likely holding was some kind of K. And probably a decent one like KQ or KJ given his preflop call. I really didn't see him on a draw on this board.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Sorry, my original post wasn't that clear about this, but I really felt that villain's most likely holding was some kind of K. And probably a decent one like KQ or KJ given his preflop call. I really didn't see him on a draw on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why isn't he betting the turn when checked to?

If you really don't think he's on a draw you can raise the river of course.

Edit: no you can't, he has a slowplayed bigger set a lot too. I just don't see a hand like KQ or AK miniraising river after checking turn, it doesn't compute. The only hand that you beat that isn't making a move on you on the river is KJ.

I say go ahead and keep leading on the turn, he seems to like something about his hand...So I got to know now, did he hit a straight with Q10 or did you win the pot and just felt bad about the way you gave a free card?

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Sorry, my original post wasn't that clear about this, but I really felt that villain's most likely holding was some kind of K. And probably a decent one like KQ or KJ given his preflop call. I really didn't see him on a draw on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why isn't he betting the turn when checked to?


[/ QUOTE ]

A fair point. I guess a weakish K (KT), or some kind of J might check behind on the turn. If not this, then he is probalby on a draw, but I still didn't see that as strong possibilty when I was playing the hand. Probably a lapse in thinking there.

I think I just got too happy that I had a set and decided to get all in almost regardless of the action. Not smart.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

A fair point. I guess a weakish K (KT), or some kind of J might check behind on the turn. If not this, then he is probalby on a draw, but I still didn't see that as strong possibilty when I was playing the hand. Probably a lapse in thinking there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Checking behind the turn and raising the river in position is one of the strongest lines you can take in NL holdem. The times he has a busted draw or other garbage he's not calling your river push anyway. I doubt he has a medium strength showdown hand like AK or KQ because he would've bet the turn.

Note: you still call the river raise, you just puke while doing it /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why isn't he betting the turn when checked to?

If you really don't think he's on a draw you can raise the river of course.

Edit: no you can't, he has a slowplayed bigger set a lot too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The draw is the worry, of course. With the Party blinds structure, I don't think there is EVER a need to worry about a slowplayed bigger set. If it happens, well, move on to the next game. Draws I'll worry about, someone having set over set on me is like getting struck by lightning. Can't worry about it.

BTW, I really hate checking the turn. What's the point? Villain has shown no strength this hand. I'm betting that turn 100% of the time.

[Maulik]

A C/R on the turn gives him the possibility of getting away from his hand. Just keep betting it OOP and hope he pushes.

[danger_mouse]

Well, you're either 1) against Q10 (my best guess in this situation is Q10s) 2) something like K9 3) 99 4) a bluff. Against a typical (read: bad) $22 player, you should just call his raise. Chances are he has hand 1,2 or 3. If the player is really an aggro muffin, you might (MIGHT) be able to raise all in with a platinum read. Me, I'd err on the side of caution and just call regardless. Please note, if you are against a tight player that goes too far with hands and rarely bluffs, you can probably get away with this hand, but that situation is very, very rare in my experience.

[45suited]

Raiser, why did you check the turn? What reason did you have to believe that the villain would bet after you checked? So far, he's only called the entire hand.

I really, really hate checking that turn. Way too fancy IMO.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
At the time, I felt that this meant he really liked his hand, so I was trying for a turn C/R here hoping he has AK, KQ, or KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you're getting a little too fancy. you're going to stack any of those hands regardless of whether you check the turn or bet it (there's some chance he'll check behind KQ and then just call the river, but unlikely).

the real reason to bet the flop and check the turn is to get one more bet out of a hand like 99 or QJ that would fold the turn but would call a bet on the end.

generally my cowardice wins out over my greed and i bet again on the turn. i'd bet 300 and hope that QJ / K9 / TT / etc come along. another risk of checking the turn is that you leave money on the table against a loose player with one of those hands who would've gone to the felt if you bet it all the way.

river: i've become very leery of the min-raise on the river. i think it's pretty unlikely he was slow-playing a hand you beat like KJ. i think either he has J9/K9 or he has QT, and there's some chance he has garbage, in which case it doesn't matter if you raise of call. but i smell QT - i just call. if you do lose the hand, you'll have enough to be in a 3-way dogfight for 3rd.

[Isura]

Bet more on the flop. I make it 225 or more. He's not folding a K or AJ here. Keep betting on the turn, even if it's only 1/3-1/2 the pot. Your best way to extract here and still protect your hand is to make a good 1/2 bet on the turn, and bet the river again.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
Raiser, why did you check the turn? What reason did you have to believe that the villain would bet after you checked? So far, he's only called the entire hand.

I really, really hate checking that turn. Way too fancy IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably was too fancy.

I thought that checking the turn might represent something like 77 or AQ that missed the flop and had a failed continuation bet. At this point in the hand I really felt he had a decent K or a J and that he would bet if I showed weakness here.

Those were my thoughts that the time. Bad?