Tables of Gold and Nothing to Show for It

[Bobbrt1329]

Let's get right to it:
Two NL ($50) tables, one idiot per table.

Idiot #1 raises preflop with any pair or suited cards, and will not fold afterwards, no matter what happens.
Idiot #2 does the same thing, only with EVERY hand.
In each case below their stack is bigger than mine.
I have:

Ah Ad: $50 stack against Idiot #1. He raises, I reraise, he reraises, I go all in. He shows Ks 8s and gets five spades.

JJ: $30 stack against Idiot #1. He raises to $2, all fold, I go all-in, knowing that he has a worse hand and he'll call me. He shows AQo and hits a straight.

KK: $118 stack against Idiot #2. He raises to $3, one caller, I raise to $15, he raises to $30, caller folds, I go all in and he calls. He shows 99 and flops a set. As an extra kick in the nuts, if I hadn't driven out the caller in between, he would have flopped a set of sixes.

So my question is, against morons like this, should I NOT be trying to get all of my money into the pot with what is almost guaranteed to be the best hands? Should I slow down preflop to beat them with good postflop play and possibly extricate myself from a bad situation?

With the aces I could have folded at least after the fourth spade hit, with the kings there were no overcards and nothing scary, but I probably at least wouldn't have lost my whole stack, and with the jacks, since I would have flopped a set, I was probably dead anyway.

Is my preflop strategy here wrong for a cash game?

[djoyce003]

moron

[Petteri]

Your strategy is perfect. Just find donks and punish them.

[wslee00]

ure having a bad run - those are good plays - but if you say they won't fold after the flop, sure, wait for the flop before risking all your chips

[btetreau]

[ QUOTE ]
moron

[/ QUOTE ]

useless

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original post

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oh my lord, if i could sit down with those guys i'd do exactly what you did every day for the rest of my life and be happy. seriously, if you get all your stack in PF with AA against folks that will call with K8 then you should follow them everywhere and keep doing what you are doing. you are going to win that back eventually, especially when you are so far ahead, so just keep doing what you are doing. three hands, you got screwed - nothing to do but reload and hope they don't go broke before you can break them.

[djoyce003]

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[ QUOTE ]
moron

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useless



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bite me...this is a pathetic bad beat troll, the dude has 9 posts and you responded seriously to it? Anyone who thinks he shouldn't get his money in with AA preflop is obviously trolling or has exactly zero understanding of any hold-em concept and decided to make an ass out of himself with his 9th post....gimme a break. But thanks for chiming in.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's get right to it:
Two NL ($50) tables, one idiot per table.

Idiot #1 raises preflop with any pair or suited cards, and will not fold afterwards, no matter what happens.
Idiot #2 does the same thing, only with EVERY hand.
In each case below their stack is bigger than mine.
I have:

Ah Ad: $50 stack against Idiot #1. He raises, I reraise, he reraises, I go all in. He shows Ks 8s and gets five spades.

JJ: $30 stack against Idiot #1. He raises to $2, all fold, I go all-in, knowing that he has a worse hand and he'll call me. He shows AQo and hits a straight.

KK: $118 stack against Idiot #2. He raises to $3, one caller, I raise to $15, he raises to $30, caller folds, I go all in and he calls. He shows 99 and flops a set. As an extra kick in the nuts, if I hadn't driven out the caller in between, he would have flopped a set of sixes.

So my question is, against morons like this, should I NOT be trying to get all of my money into the pot with what is almost guaranteed to be the best hands? Should I slow down preflop to beat them with good postflop play and possibly extricate myself from a bad situation?

With the aces I could have folded at least after the fourth spade hit, with the kings there were no overcards and nothing scary, but I probably at least wouldn't have lost my whole stack, and with the jacks, since I would have flopped a set, I was probably dead anyway.

Is my preflop strategy here wrong for a cash game?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're telling bad beat stories. They are boring. Your play is fine. Poker has some gambling involved.

[BZ_Zorro]

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moron

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second.

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should I NOT be trying to get all of my money into the pot with what is almost guaranteed to be the best hands?

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that you can write the second part of the sentence makes you a troll. This is just a big fat whine post.

[Bobbrt1329]

For those who responded intelligently so far (and in the future), thanks. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't kidding myself thinking that I had made the right decisions, when there may have been some reason not to play so aggressively before any of the cards came out.
Most of my experience and reading is on tournament play, and I didn't know if you needed to think differently when in a cash game. I figured my play was good (except maybe for the jacks hand), but you never know.

To the rest of you, get a life and accept the fact that some people are just looking for help.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who responded intelligently so far (and in the future), thanks. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't kidding myself thinking that I had made the right decisions, when there may have been some reason not to play so aggressively before any of the cards came out.
Most of my experience and reading is on tournament play, and I didn't know if you needed to think differently when in a cash game. I figured my play was good (except maybe for the jacks hand), but you never know.

To the rest of you, get a life and accept the fact that some people are just looking for help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try posting some hands with real decisions if you want intelligent reactions. Otherwise, quit trolling. You're post was 95% noise.

[BZ_Zorro]

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For those who responded intelligently so far (and in the future), thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're welcome.

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To the rest of you, get a life and accept the fact that some people are just looking for help.

[/ QUOTE ]
And some people are looking to blow off their frustrations. I must say I've seen better attempts (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2905878&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) than 'Gee, should I really have gotten all in with AA preflop against these morons?'

[ QUOTE ]
So my question is, against morons like this, should I NOT be trying to get all of my money into the pot with what is almost guaranteed to be the best hands?

[/ QUOTE ]
You know exactly what you should and shouldn't do. No one here told you anything you didn't already know, and no one learnt anything from reading your post.

[rikz]

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JJ: $30 stack against Idiot #1. He raises to $2, all fold, I go all-in, knowing that he has a worse hand and he'll call me. He shows AQo and hits a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call the raise, and bet pot-sized into the loose raiser when no overcards hit the board (unless the K hit on the flop, then you can lead out or not depending on your read or position). In fact, there are a lot of players on this forum that will limp JJ UTG and call a reraise from behind them playing primarily for set value because it can be a vulnerable hand out of position post flop. On the other hand, there are poster that will reraise a very loose raiser if they have JJ in late position. But I doubt even those guys would go all in on a $3 pot.

Except for the fact that your read led you to believe that you'd get a ton of action here from bad hands, betting a $30 stack into a $2 or $3 pot is a bad idea. Plus, your read was only partially correct here because his hand wasn't as terrible as you thought it was. Although I wouldn't recommend calling an all in with AQo any more than I'd recommend going all in with JJ, you're play was probably almost as bad villain's here.

In this case, the "Idiot" villain actually had a pretty good chance to win.

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Qd 727947 42.51 978874 57.17 5483 0.32 0.427
Js Jh 978874 57.17 727947 42.51 5483 0.32 0.573

Plus, at a tight table - and there are some tight tables at PP NL$25 depending on the time of day and the day of the week - your only getting action here with a huge over bet preflop from QQ (unlikely from a decent player unless he has a read on YOU as being bad preflop), KK or AA. Against even the worst of those three, you're dominated.

Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Qd 1388618 81.10 317538 18.54 6148 0.36 0.813
Js Jh 317538 18.54 1388618 81.10 6148 0.36 0.187

The AA and KK hands look fine.

[Bobbrt1329]

Thanks, Albert.

Under normal conditions I would never overbet a pot like this with JJ. My decision here was based on three factors:

1) He raised utg and everyone folded to me in the small blind. In Harrington's book he talks about using an all-in occasionally to eliminate positional disadvantages after the flop.
2) I knew it was a gamble that he might be holding a big hand, but also that he would call with any trash pair or weak suited cards.
3) He had been talking big after giving a couple of people bad beats, and had just said that he was going to take my stack away. I knew that he would call me, specifically, with anything.

So yes, he did turn over a bigger hand than I thought I was going to see. C'est la vie. I'll try to play it a little better next time.