Bubble JJ hand

[durron597]

I don't like the risk reward ratio of pushing preflop. I probably should have just made a standard raise but I didn't want to have to fold to a push. On the flop I'm not afraid of the 1 queen (continuation bet) until he calls me.

Stars $16 turbo.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t3635)
SB (t2980)
BB (t2075)
UTG (t4810)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, Hero calls t400, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t200.

Flop: (t1300) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t200</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t900</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t700.

Turn: (t3100) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (t3100) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t3100

[johnnybeef]

i think you played it fine

[jeffraider]

I like it! There's not really a better way to play it on the flop or preflop, I think.

[DyessMan89]

Me Tarzan. Me want you to play turn and river more aggressivley. Roar.

[ekky]

have you shut down as soon as he calls the flop? I love the way you played it.. but hate the way he played it if he had you beat.

your pot control check on the turn was the key... no stack commitment and gave you a cheaper showdown if he bet small(ish) on the end.

im guessing he had an underpair and you took it down

[lastchance]

I push preflop, and it's obvious to me. Considering you didn't push preflop, a standard raise might work, but you do have to call a push over the top.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

im guessing he had an underpair and you took it down

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I put him on too, but I was wrong.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I push preflop, and it's not close. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

In all seriousness, I would appreciate some reasoning as to why you want to push a 3600 stack into a 700 pot when my opponent is likely on 77+,KJ+,AT+? I mean sure I win the 700 a lot of the time but a good % of his range will call me and crush me.

[lastchance]

I don't know. Looking at it, your line might be better than mine... But, it's a pretty big pot you're playing for on the pot. At the very least, you have to call this, so it's going to be a large portion of your stack on the flop.

Also, it's a minraise, so I do suspect Villain to be looser that your range, in general.

Still, it's an interesting spot, one I haven't thought about too much...

Flop is also interesting. I think Villain has a weak Q a lot of the time here, maybe overs or a draw... Meh...

Still, FE is life, and I think I'm looking to take this pot down.

[tigerite]

I like the line. Especially on the turn to check behind as you have outs to the 2nd nut straight. He gave you the chance to get a cheap showdown, I don't see the harm in taking it. As for what he had I would say either some kind of draw (JT spades, maybe?) or QJ. I think AQ would re-raise you on the flop. I guess it's possible he has KQ, checks the river thinking you have AQ and will bet so he can check-raise. Hell at this level it could have been AK whiffed til the river.

I would think JTs he would want to at least get some guaranteed money in on the river though, so it's probably the least likely.

[Maulik]

The min raise shows weakness. I'd re-raise to isolate and consider pushing all-in. Calling 11% of your stack is probably weak-tight. By pushing you likely take down t700 without a showdown, which is always nice. In any event, I re-raise or push all-in; for better or worse.

[curtains]

I would raise preflop. Your hand is too powerful, your opponent raised in too late of a position, and no one is that shortstacked.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I push preflop, and it's not close. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

In all seriousness, I would appreciate some reasoning as to why you want to push a 3600 stack into a 700 pot when my opponent is likely on 77+,KJ+,AT+? I mean sure I win the 700 a lot of the time but a good % of his range will call me and crush me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think the cutoff might be a little looser than that???

[me1tdown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

im guessing he had an underpair and you took it down

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I put him on too, but I was wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious -- did he have a Ax and get a free card at the end?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

You dont think the cutoff might be a little looser than that???

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible. That is what I thought at the time having played with him for the whole beginning of the SnG but in retrospect I was probably wrong (which is why I left it out of the OP) - even though his actual hand was in that range.

Edit: he certainly was *not* bullying the table.

[schwza]

pre-flop i think it's got to be push or call. i really don't like raise-fold because you could be folding as a 80-20 favorite, and likely as a 55-45 favorite. raise-call is also pretty unappealing because the call is going to make you a little queasy against his range with those stack sizes. and if he flat calls your raise it will hard to play post-flop because you really want to avoid going broke.

at first i thought your call was dubious, but i like it now. the stacks are a little too deep to push. i think your line is ok post-flop... the only worry i would have would be getting pushed off the hand by something like 55 / 9x / etc that read your turn check (correctly) as weakness.

but i don't see much to do about it. betting the turn makes you lose too much against an AQ / JT type hand. you could flat call the flop and plan on calling one real bet. this would give free cards, and it would let him push you off with solid bets on the turn and river, but it would let you extract more from hands that are drawing nearly dead (that usually fold the flop).

i'd take your line though.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]

I would raise preflop. Your hand is too powerful, your opponent raised in too late of a position, and no one is that shortstacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

raise to what, and do what if the pfr pushes?

[curtains]

I'd raise an amount where I'm not going to fold no matter what. Probably allin.

Calling is probably fine too to be honest.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
flat call the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm beat and I just call the flop, he's betting the turn.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
flat call the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm beat and I just call the flop, he's betting the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would be pretty surprised if your calling his minbet got him to slow down with KQ or whatever.

the reason i suggested calling is that you can get another bet out of a hand that's not beating you. and for him to bluff you off the hand, he'll have to fire bets on the turn and river, in which case i'm willing to concede the pot.

[eh923]

I like pushing PF on this because:
- It's 4-handed, so his opening standards are probably quite low compared to at a full table.
- It's 4-handed, so the blinds are coming fast (in a turbo tourney no less).
- 700 is almost 20% of your stack, which is nothing to sneeze at.
- You have a great hand...but it's not good enough to slow-play, and it's WAY too good to be conservative.
- There are a lot of flops that will put a scare into you.
- Next person out doesn't get paid...and you can really cripple UTG.

Why would a chip leader raise a weak queen UTG?

Pushing pre-flop or calling all-in is bad pre-flop here because although you're likely going to take it down, you don't want to risk finishing 4th, when the money is so close. I call the pre-flop raise. On the flop, there's an option to raise (like Hero did) or calling with a chance of an A or K dropping forcing you to fold it to a bet on the turn. I like Hero's raise and I also like checking behind on the turn and river because I would not rule out the possibility of my opponent holding something like KQ.

[eh923]

A lot of people have a fear of finishing 4th. That's why (a) chip leaders will raise with less than premium hands and (b) coming over the top is a good move.

[adanthar]

I like this whole hand, more or less, with the exception of probably reraising him if the raise doesn't mean anhything. Nothing particularly wrong with calling here or shutting down when he calls, IMO.

PS: I vote Qxs, or KTo, just because.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
with the exception of probably reraising him if the raise doesn't mean anhything.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case the raise did mean something, maybe not a really strong hand but the absolute worst hand he could have with that pfr is K9, and that's too loose I think.