Timid at Micro Limits

[DaNoob]

Hello all,

This is my first time posting to the site and admittedly, I have a lot yet to learn about poker and the best way to get advice from more seasoned players. I'm very new to the game (been playing online for about 2 weeks now) and am still learning the ropes through micro limit games and small stakes tourneys, playing mostly Holdem. I seem to be doing much better in the tournaments than the ring games and was hoping to pick up some advice on how to improve my game.

Question is, due to the aggressive call/raise nature of most micro limit games, what is the best way to determine if a hand is worth paying to see the flop? I've played a lot of micro-limit games lately .05/.10 and .10/.25 and always end up folding decent hands to pre-flop raises, only to find out that the pre-flop raiser was holding a 67o, 23o, or some related garbage. When I called however, thinking that the player(s) were bluffing, I ended up losing more times than not. I know that posting specific hands will elicit more specific responses, and will certainly post them as they come along. In the meantime, does anyone have ideas on how best to shape my strategy on these tables?

I've read on several other posts that you should learn how to win the micro games before you try stepping up to the bigger stakes, and I don't feel like I'm making progress.

Trying not to be the fool (and his money).

[lil']

Like you said, it's hard to say without any hands posted. I've never played at micro limit, but here's my 2 cents...

If there is a player who tends to raise with crap, you want to isolate him with a re-raise, not call. It would be ideal to be heads up with someone who may have crap rather than put two bets cold into a pot with several other players.

[RockLobster]

I'm not sure where you're playing that has such wild players, but the .5/$1 games at PartyPoker and Paradise play pretty reasonably. Much more passive than you describe. Where are you currently playing?

[DaNoob]

I usually play at Poker Stars, generally on the .05/.10 stakes for Holdem and occassionally Omaha H/L. The table is not always this aggressive, but often is, and that's when I feel like my playing could be improved upon.

In another post I read earlier, it was stated that you usually have to play the micro-stakes games to showdown. As such, it would seem that initial betting strategies would be different. In no limit tournaments, for example, I may bet much more on 66 than I would in a fixed ring game, where I know that I'll have to play the hand all the way (and there's a good chance of seeing an overpair). As such, should I play a tighter game in this situation and, if so, how tight?

I know these are extremely general questions. Next post will have specifc examples, I promise.

Thx.

[RockLobster]

Yes, you usually end up showing down the best hand in order to drag the pot.

If you haven't already done so, consider reading Lee Jones' "Winning Low Limit Hold'em". I found it to be a big help for these games.

[Nottom]

I was actually in a situation last night involving a play that apparently went completely insane about 30 min after I joined the game. He began to limp-reraise with literally any hand and would continue to raise after the flop. On one hand I capped preflop, flop, before calling on the turn and river with to be shown 63o on a board that was something like QQJ85 with a four flush that he didn't have. I was able to get him a few more times before the other opponents caught on including once with AA which he graciously would re-raise for me and forced another poor opponent to pay me off big time with his top pair AQ. Unfortunatly for me, he settled down a bit after than until his final bout of betting fury to blow the last of his chips.

[Bob T.]

Welcome to 2+2 and the world of poker.

First, I agree that you have to be able to beat micro limits before you will be able to move up to higher limits.

Microlimits are about value betting, and about having the best hand to showdown. You will be able to beat these limits if you show some discretion preflop, and then make good decisions on the flop about whether or not to continue.

Second comment. I don't know how many hours you have put in, but two weeks is a very short time, and it is likely that most of your opponents have more experience than you do. It shouldn't be surprising that they are able to beat you so far. Mistakes that are made preflop, might cost you a fraction of a small bet, but some mistakes that you make postflop will cost you much more. Given that most of your opponents have played many more hands than you have, they should be playing those hands better than you are now. Hopefully, you can change that as time goes on.

Third, this game looks simple from the outside, but it really isn't. There are a lot of layers of complexity and confusion, and it takes time to sort them all out. Most of us are still struggling with it. But that is also what makes this game intriguing.

Finally, participate in the forum. Given your inexperience, there are likely some major areas where you can improve your play, and the people in the forum are willing to help. Most of us have gotten better, because other players helped us in the past, and we are more than willing to pass on what we learned. You will benefit more if you do two things. 1- Post hands that you have problems or specific questions on. Those are the hands that you have questions that you are ready to learn about. 2- Post responses to the hands that other people have posted. Thinking about their questions will help you when you face those problems, and other players responses to your posts will let you know how well you are thinking about those problems.

[Louie Landale]

Its real hard to do at first, but you need to figure out right away who's reasonably selective in their raises and who is a lot more liberal.

If the player is selective, then so must you be. If he's a liberal raiser, you can pretty much just ignore the raise. Play whatever hands you would normally play from your position, keeping in mind that his raise (I suppose) will narrow the field.

After the flop and presuming a few players are in: it doesn't matter much if the pre-flop raiser is "bluffing", you still need to show-down a winner against the other players.

The best way to avoid a lot of these situations is to avoid hands that GET you into these situations: if you have, for whatever reason, a lot of trouble playing 2nd pair, then you need to avoid hands featuring Js Ts and 9s. Play tight, wait for top pair, then figure to show it down.

- Louie

[DaNoob]

So, knowing that the guy was bluffing, do you lower your standards for a playable hand? Or, since you see other callers, is it still better to play tight and wait for a good hand?

[DaNoob]

Thanks to all for the warm welcome and good advice. You'll definitely be seeing more of me on the post, both posting and responding to posts... I definitely want to improve my game and this seems like just the place to do it.

Brigadao

[Barry]

Bob T is giving you very good advice. I started playing last fall, and lost quite a bit of $ early on. As I began to play more, some of the other folks that I played with told me about this site. I was very reluctant to post at 1st, because I was afraid that some of the folks would tell me that I played a hand poorly. Sometimes (more than I would like to admit) they did; but I learned from them all.

I have just recently started to post my thoughts on other persons posts. You really do learn a lot by posting your own hands and responding to others. You can think the situations through, rather than in the heat of the battle during the hand. As you do that more, thinking under the gun gets easier.

You should also buy the good poker books out there. Start with a few and add to your collection as you get more experience. Sklansky's Hold'em and Theory of Poker are also good ones to start with.

Good luck and good playing.

[Nottom]

I still played pretty tight preflop except maybe a bit more raising to try and get heads up, but also realized I would often win unimproved postflop so could push hands like AK or 2nd pair much harder than normal and count on the capped pots pushing out people with so-so hands that were better than mine (until they caught on). I think I managed to take about $30 from him in 2-3 pots in a 1/2 game before the other players really caught on.