Sy Hersh, get ready for the camp(s)

[brad]

http://www.gooff.com/NM/templates/Breaking_News.asp?articleid=334&zoneid=2

...

An incredulous Blitzer repeatedly asked Perle why he would call Hersh a terrorist, and Perle defended the remark. He denounced the journalist as “irresponsible,” adding that he was a “terrorist” because “he sets out to do damage and he will do it by whatever innuendo, whatever distortion he can.”

Hersh is one of the most accomplished US investigative reporters, having established his reputation by exposing the US massacre of 600 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai in 1968. He is the recipient of over a dozen major journalism awards, including the Pulitzer Prize and four George Polk Awards.

...

In the recently disclosed draft of the Justice Department’s Domestic Security Enhancement Act, often referred to as “Patriot Act II,” the designation “terrorist” is extended to domestic opponents of the government. This proposed measure would grant the president or attorney general the power to label someone a “terrorist” and strip him of his US citizenship.

Perle’s statement about Hersh stands as a chilling warning of how these police state statutes could be put to use. Those who challenged the policies of the government, or even the filthy business practices of individual officials, could face being labeled “terrorists” and thrown into a military prison.

[Boris]

scary. very scary. Maybe MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM will be able to defend Mr. Perle.

[Chris Alger]

It's the same pattern we saw with the contras: conjure up a threat to justify mass terrorism and government largesse and make a killing in the process through insider deals and, in this case, blackmail, while being shielded from scrutiny by the veil of "national security." That animals like Perle are considered respectable leaders is another indication of the creeping nazification of elite political culture.

[brad]

no sh**. after next terrorist attack which they say is inevitable, if so called patriot act 2 gets rammed through people like hersh will be 'disappeared'.

no maybe about it. guaranteed. no more hersh. no more criticism.

[brad]

the fact that this time, or realistically the next time, these nazis will have the power to (criminally of course) silence their critics should have every thinking american just totally freaking out.

[MMMMMM]

I think there are some legitimate concerns raised here, but it also seems that perhaps you and Boris and maybe others are jumping to further conclusions than are merited.

Just because Perle said Hersh is "the closest thing to a terrorist" isn't exactly calling him a terrorist, and even if he did actually call him a terrorist, that doesn't imply that this name-calling carries any force of law or is anything other than an ill-conceived appellation which might merely reflect poor judgment on Perle's part.

Partiot Act 2? Legitimate concerns, yes, and I'd be curious to know more about it. But bear in mind that even Patriot Act (1) was misrepresented by many who claimed that the abridgments of liberties extended equally to citizens and non-citizens alike when in fact citizens retain more protection under Patriot Act (1) than do non-citizens.

This linked article also is more of a commentary than a mere report. I'd be curious to read, sans commentary, the whole transcript of the interview and to form my own opinion, and to read the text of the proposed Patriot Act 2 as well in full (hopefully it's not terribly long).

I do think we need to be vigilant about losing liberties and Constitutional rights. However let's try to analyze things strictly on facts and not on speculations or emotions.

[brad]

padilla is US citizen and is being held enemy combatant no access to lawyer, etc.

he was arrested in US.

u can look it up.

[Parmenides]

It would be reasonable to do this if it didn't involve the risk of arrest and being held without bail nor legal counsel. This can be done to any American. It's been done to some already. You better be careful, M, in questioning the new Fuhrer's policies. They will come for you, too.

[andyfox]

http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=te xt/html&Path=NYS/2003/03/12&ID=Ar00200

[andyfox]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/09/le.00.html

[MMMMMM]

yes, that's old news, but that has nothing to do with Patriot Act 2

[andyfox]

Here's the relevant section.

BLITZER: There's an article in the New Yorker magazine by Seymour Hersh that's just coming out today in which he makes a serious accusation against you that you have a conflict of interest in this because you're involved in some business that deals with homeland security, you potentially could make some money if, in fact, there is this kind of climate that he accuses you of proposing.

Let me read a quote from the New Yorker article, the March 17th issue, just out now. "There is no question that Perle believes that removing Saddam from power is the right thing to do. At the same time, he has set up a company that may gain from a war."

PERLE: I don't believe that a company would gain from a war. On the contrary, I believe that the successful removal of Saddam Hussein, and I've said this over and over again, will diminish the threat of terrorism. And what he's talking about is investments in homeland defense, which I think are vital and are necessary.

Look, Sy Hersh is the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist, frankly.

BLITZER: Well, on the basis of -- why do you say that? A terrorist?

PERLE: Because he's widely irresponsible. If you read the article, it's first of all, impossible to find any consistent theme in it. But the suggestion that my views are somehow related for the potential for investments in homeland defense is complete nonsense.

BLITZER: But I don't understand. Why do you accuse him of being a terrorist?

PERLE: Because he sets out to do damage and he will do it by whatever innuendo, whatever distortion he can -- look, he hasn't written a serious piece since Maylie (ph).

[MMMMMM]

Well...after reading the entire article up to and including this section, I don't think Sy Hersh is in any danger, imminent or otherwise, of being sent to a camp or stripped of his citizenship.

Let's also note that Perle didn't call Hersh a terrorist--that's Blitzer's inaccurate mirroring of what Perle said, and Bill Vann's inaccuracy as well. Perle is more saying that Hersh is somewhat like a terrorist--insofar as journalism goes--in that Hersh is deliberately and unconscionably destructive, and that he's the worst journalistic offender in this regard.

Whether that is true or not, I don't think brad need worry about Hersh being sent away anytime soon.

Blitzer may simply have been reacting in part emotionally. However, it would have been more appropriate for Blitzer to question Perle as to why he feels Hersh is like a terrorist, rather than erroneously asking why he is accusing Hersh of being one--and had Blitzer done so, the interview would have reflected less negatively on Perle (and brad might not have been so worried over Hersh's fate;-))

Concerns about the rights of US citizens vis-a-vis the Patriot Act(s) are worthwhile--and are worthy of being discussed without distorted emotionalism engendered due to an interviewing slip. Perle may also be worthy of being discussed--but tying the two topics together in an article in an emotional way due to a crossed interchange in an interview is not conducive to clear analysis.

The question of whether US citizens may be stripped of citizenship under Patriot Act 2 is important, and I don't know anything about it. However, Perle's remarks are not really germane to that discussion, and tying them to the topic simply serves to increase the emotional noise factor.

[brad]

But bear in mind that even Patriot Act (1) was misrepresented by many who claimed that the abridgments of liberties extended equally to citizens and non-citizens alike when in fact citizens retain more protection under Patriot Act (1) than do non-citizens.
------------------------------
padilla is US citizen and is being held enemy combatant no access to lawyer, etc.

he was arrested in US.

u can look it up.
------------------------------
yes, that's old news, but that has nothing to do with Patriot Act 2
-----------------------------


yes well right now perle is suing in british court. in the future he might have authority in US to 'disappear' people who criticize governemnt.

to reiterate: perle is trying to shut him up right now. in the future he may have the raw power to do it.