stereo speckers and home theatre

[Ray Zee]

well im upgrading my stuff, and the audiophilles say i must get rid of my big jbl speakers as they wont work well in the new dolby digital 7.1 format that i am getting set up for. do speakers really have to all match except for the sub? and my old speakers are not shielded. will that make them unsuitable. HELP>

my wonderful carver 2000 reciever cant be used either so i am going for a b&k av 307. seems good but not as full as the carver.

[IrishHand]

Pay limited attention to the audiophiles - they have more money than hearing.
(For proper context, I had the fortune/misfortune of working as a salesman at a home audio store for a little under a year prior to law school.)

Yes, in theory you need the same or highly similar speakers all 'round in any proper surround sound setup (excluding the sub, which is a different beast). However, VERY few people have the auditory precision to appreciate the difference between similar speakers. I would sit in our demo room for hours switching back and forth between different sets and combinations of speakers, and it took me a while to notice differences in either sound quality or surround sound quality. Certainly, different brands of speakers sound different, meaning some are more bassy, others with more clarity in the higher ranges, but that comes down more to personal preference than anything else.

As long as the speakers are vaguely the same category, they'll work perfectly fine. If you intend to use the stereo for music, then the two stereo speakers (front left, front right) will remain the most important for those purposes. In terms of the home theater set-up, the center channel is by far the most crucial - over 80% of the total sound comes out of the center channel.

As applies to your particular case...if your JBL speakers are big and old, as they seem to be, they probably won't be a good fit in a surround sound format because (a) you won't be able to find anything similar to serve in the other roles, and (b) even if you did, large speakers tend to perform poorly in surround (eg. not center or stereo) capacities.

Hope that helps,
Irish

[Ray Zee]

thxs Irish,

but all the high end systems for home theatre use big tower speakers for the front.

[IrishHand]

It's my understanding that that's primarily to allow for great stereo sound (eg. music) in addition to their surround sound capabilities. I don't know of any surround sound "expert" who advocates anything other than the speakers all being about the same size and quality (with the notable exception of the center channel, of course). The reason for this is that, as I noted above, the center channel gets 80%+ of the total sound. The remaining speakers each put out less than 10% of the total output - which means their primary focus is on sound quality and precision, as opposed to high volume (which is what larger speakers are generally designed to accomodate). Just look at actual theaters - or even real high end home theater, where people have installed a mini-theater in a dedicated room in their houses - in those cases, the bigger, better speakers are behind the screen (center channels), and all the other speakers are the same size and quality.

So...as I said, if you want to use it both as a home theater and a stereo, then you would certainly want to consider using larger stereo speakers - if only to allow high quality, high volume sound when the tunes are a-bumpin'. If it'll be home theater only, then large stereo speakers are completely wasted.

Also, you should expect to spend about the same amount (or a bit more) on speakers that you do on your receiver. That generally goes without saying, but I've seen people ignore it. Your net sound will be a factor of the lowest common denominator, whether that be receiver, wiring or sound. (Of course, this also means you should drop the extra couple hundred on good quality/thickness Monster Cable or something similar.)

[David Steele]

Ray,

Do you already have a center channel or just stereo? The center needs to be matched I feel, but you can get away with nearly anything for the rest.

Only the center channel needs to be shielded for resting over a CRT. The sides should be far enough away, and will be OK. New speakers will be shielded.

I actually have some JBL studio monitors (1985ish) and I matched the center and used cheap rears and a good sub. The whole thing is acceptable for 5.1.

Since setting that up, I have become a bit of an audiofile due to getting into music recording. There are speakers available now that are much much better then those ones I have on my theater setup. You might want to check out the speakers from Paradigm. They are totally awsome sound and not too expensive. A set of their reference series speakers, will blow away those wacky audiofile towers that cost a fortune. I am tilted towards natural instruments sounding real and avoiding hyped punchy sound.

D.

[Ray Zee]

Irish, and Dave,

part of my problem is that i have a killer music system already but not well set up for home theatre. i also hate to part with my current equipement as i am attached to it. but i realize it may be out of date for home theatre.

but i do have two jbl-350 speakers--two magnaplaner speakers --klispsh center and main medium size with two klipsh box rears.

a carver 2000 200 amp receiver but it doesnt do dolby digital and various other compenents.

i am finding it hard to integrate my present stuff into the home theatre setup. as i am putting in a 65 inch screen and will run out of wall space if i use too many speakers in front. i do not want to use my stuff in another location as i want to have one spot for listening.

[Mark Heide]

Ray,

It looks like you need alot of help. Carver and JBL are mass market consumer brands which you should know don't sound very good. Carver invented a unique amplifier design to cut costs, but it does not handle transient bursts which utilize short bursts of high power, in other words, it does not reproduce effects like gun shots and machine guns very well.

I recommend that you buy a B&W Home Theater speaker system. They start at $1,950 to $27,000 depending on what you want. For amplification, I recommend Bryston with their 20 year transferable warranty. Here are some links to get yourself educated:

http://www.bwspeakers.com

http://www.bryston.ca

Read the information at these sites and you will have educated yourself better on home audio, even if you decide to pick another brand. Note that, for home theater systems the speaker systems need to match due to frequency crossovers. With mismatched speaker systems you will get coloration and muddy bass.

Good Luck

Mark

[David Steele]

I am not very directly familiar with the other speakers and am not even sure which JBL's you have.

However, it might be best to go for a set of reference type speakers for the front 2 and center, and then use the older speakers for the sides. It's a bit of a weird mish-mash, but the front will be excellent music stereo or movies with the center and you can always add some more of the same if your not happy with the surround evenness.

If you have some time, drop by Vancouver and hear my studio speakers. My 65" theater has the old ones though as I mentioned.

D.

[HDPM]

I recently got frustrated even thinking about this. And I didn't want to spend a bunch of money on electronics right now since I want to upgrade our TV's in other rooms as well. And HDPW wanted a TV that would fit in a cabinet. (Why spent money on a cabinet when you can spend the money on a bigger TV that won't fit in a nice cabinet and some home theater stuff. I was outvoted 1-1.) I hate the way lower end home theater sounds. It's all fake and will ruin music. And I wasn't going to drop the cash on a good system. So I got a Sony flat screen and switched my CD player for a DVD, powered it with my same receiver (I will upgrade someday) and ran the DVD audio through the Klipsch Heresy speakers I had. So I don't have home theater but I have good stereo sound on DVD's that sounds better than low end home theater IMO. Music sounds slightly better out of the new DVD/CD player, but it also could just be better speaker placement or acoustics in the new house. I don't have a high-end system, but it seems OK to me. I'm not an audiophile or stereo geek and I think my stuff sounds good for mid-level. Better than the stuff at Rex at least. I also expected Zee to drop 50K into a high end system with his royalty checks. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ray Zee]

the older carver and jbl were the tops in their day. not so anymore.

what about the b&k av 301 i am looking at. they make some of the best receivers?

and how about if i try to match up klipsh fronts with my others. arent klipsh reference good. with that klipsh 15 inch sub.

it looks like i may have to say bye to the old. but the advice i get is from the new. so how can i judge.

[Mark Heide]

Ray,

You will probably live with the sound system you pick for your home for the next 20 years. Take some time and learn what's available.

I'm not going to tell you what to buy, but you need to discover that yourself. I provided the two links so you can read about how their products are made, so you can understand the difference between those and massed produced junk that you find at Best Buy or Circuit City.

The best I can suggest is to go to the B&W site I listed in my previous post and get in touch with a dealer they recommend that's close to where you live, if possible. Once, you go to a dealer that carries this type of product you will be exposed to many other manufacturers that you can compare, including integrated amps, receivers,etc.

Most good quality dealers will let you bring in your amps and speakers to make comparisons (sometimes by appointment). Additionally, I suggest bringing a few CDs of your favorite music for auditioning, plus try to bring something that has a wide dynamic range, like a good Wagner opera.

Futhermore, I recommend that you take room measurements and ask the dealer what they recommend for your environment. In a good audio store the dealer is there to help you find the right system for your environment.

Good Luck

Mark