My first-ever LRR [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

bozlax

08-02-2005, 01:48 PM

I don't think I've ever done this, but here's what led me to it:

I've been at the table for about 5 orbits. It's pretty loose (4 or more people seeing most flops, even when raised). The two players to my left are especially loose (one or the other is in every hand) and aggressive, raising probably 1/2 the hands they play.

Above and beyond that, the guy 2 seats to my left clearly thinks he has a read on me. He pushed me off a pot on my second or third hand, so now every time I limp in he raises. I decided to make him pay for this behavior, this time, and hoped I would catch a few other players as well.

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets...

Am I a cheese-bag?

irishpint

08-02-2005, 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Am I a cheese-bag?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

kapw7

08-02-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Above and beyond that, the guy 2 seats to my left clearly thinks he has a read on me. He pushed me off a pot on my second or third hand, so now every time I limp in he raises. I decided to make him pay for this behavior, this time, and hoped I would catch a few other players as well.

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

Loved it.

kapw7

08-02-2005, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I a cheese-bag?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

[/ QUOTE ]

And that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

shadow29

08-02-2005, 01:54 PM

ghey

johnc

08-02-2005, 01:58 PM

Brings a smile to my face!

Dave G.

08-02-2005, 01:58 PM

It really annoys me when someone limp reraises. I always hope they get sucked out on and I'm rooting for whoever is facing them. I love it when they lose a big pot. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yes I have problems. I don't know why I feel this way when someone does it. Must be an ego thing I guess.

Anyway yeah this looks like a good spot for a LRR. I'm not sure how much action you'll get since most people get pretty suspicious about it when it happens, but if some dude was taking shots at me, this looks like a good opportunity to jam it up his ass.

irishpint

08-02-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It really annoys me when someone limp reraises. I always hope they get sucked out on and I'm rooting for whoever is facing them. I love it when they lose a big pot. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally agree- so maybe it's a good move? convince them you are unstable, insane and unable to play good poker so you can take their money w/ less of a struggle.

benkath1

08-02-2005, 01:59 PM

nh.

I'd be more inclined to make him pay on the flop or turn, but I like your reads and play.

jrz1972

08-02-2005, 02:02 PM

I don't like this play as much when you have loose players on your left who will go ahead and give you action if you raise, but given your read on villain I suppose you picked a good spot, and it certainly worked out for you.

POKhER

08-02-2005, 02:02 PM

I love it, Its always great when a read is correct.
p.s. Did you win? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

@bsolute_luck

08-02-2005, 02:04 PM

i have to say i HAAATE limp/reraisers, but it's pretty much just an early version of c/r, which we all know and do.

but what i do love:

[ QUOTE ]
Above and beyond that, the guy 2 seats to my left clearly thinks he has a read on me. He pushed me off a pot on my second or third hand, so now every time I limp in he raises. I decided to make him pay for this behavior, this time, and hoped I would catch a few other players as well.

[/ QUOTE ] so swweeeet! i hope your hand holds up.

i actually had a guy in 6-max limp/3-bet with AJs in EP at a tight table. i wasn't sure how i felt about it really, but i think he had the same feeling towards me as you did to MP3 as i was constantly trying to isolate him. he got sucked out on which was great to see /images/graemlins/grin.gif

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 02:07 PM

Well, in my experience, raising outright is always better. This allows you to get 3bet so you can cap and get the most value.

albedoa

08-02-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
p.s. Did you win? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes! Show us the rest of the hand.

Also, a LRR isn't too comparable to a CR. There's a time for each, but in this case I think the LRR happened to share a use with a CR: Hero expected aggression and used that to punish the aggressor.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, in my experience, raising outright is always better. This allows you to get 3bet so you can cap and get the most value.

[/ QUOTE ]

But...that's if you're 3-bet. Hero knew he could 3-bet the pot himself if he played it a certain way.

08-02-2005, 02:25 PM

This play is both beautiful and successful! I have done it before and it works out really well most of the time, I have had them cap a few of the times. Your obviously making a risk on this hand without the first pfr but you have a great table read and make it pay off. Also, you cant properly count the number of bets it later saved you by allowing you to limp again!

One of my fav moves in a NL tourney is to raise only 3x a small BB with AA, about 80% of the time, I get a ton of callers, then a decent sized RR (someone trying to steal) then whammo, the theif is all in against my rockets.
(dont ever do this at a level above a $10 sit n go)
Most rookies dont smell the fishiniess of my small raise...

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 02:27 PM

Another reason this is bad is because 2/4 full is ridiculously passive. If it doesn't get raised you lose about 5BBs.

Aaron W.

08-02-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Another reason this is bad is because 2/4 full is ridiculously passive. If it doesn't get raised you lose about 5BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif I have no idea where you got that number, but it's almost certainly wrong.

Eeegah

08-02-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Another reason this is bad is because 2/4 full is ridiculously passive. If it doesn't get raised you lose about 5BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

We might be able to make that up if it shuts the villain up for a while.

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another reason this is bad is because 2/4 full is ridiculously passive. If it doesn't get raised you lose about 5BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif I have no idea where you got that number, but it's almost certainly wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I'll explain.
Assuming you get no raisers, and 5 people see the flop. You get 4SB preflop.

If you get a raiser, like he did, those 4 people will see the flop will see the flop for 12SB total.

The problem is if you have observant opponents (and even some dumb ones) will notice your LRR and tighten up, costing you money later.

If you raise preflop, you will likely get 4 people to see the flop for 8SB total, and your hand is well disguised.

So, you can settle for 8SB most of the time (assuming you never get 3bet) or you can risk getting no action postflop and getting 4 extra SB, or you can risk not getting 4SB by having it limped through.

I generally hate LRRs.

Absolution

08-02-2005, 02:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One of my fav moves in a NL tourney is to raise only 3x a small BB with AA, about 80% of the time, I get a ton of callers

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want that?

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One of my fav moves in a NL tourney is to raise only 3x a small BB with AA, about 80% of the time, I get a ton of callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going for isolation, you should limp. You're more likely to get raised if the pot hasn't been raised, then you can make your move.

But generally this is a good way to go bust.

08-02-2005, 03:04 PM

please read on! a ton of callers, who end up folding to some morons all in bet because someone tries to steal pot, most common hand against is KJ, so effectively, I get 5 cold callers 3x bb calls, and the idiots all in...
cdl

08-02-2005, 03:06 PM

interesting, never gone bust on that play? how can u? also, if u limp, ur not likely to get anyone trying to pick up the blinds w/ a steal. If you dont get the RR, your aces become fragile play, but its a risk ill take at a small sit n go when im already killing the field and can knock someone out with this odd play.
cdl
cdl

hizo1

08-02-2005, 03:52 PM

you're in the wrong forum

08-02-2005, 04:01 PM

I understand that, read my original post, it was a simple add on to my post based on this thread...
cdl

bozlax

08-02-2005, 04:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes! Show us the rest of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Once I pulled the LRR I figured I wasn't going to get a C/R chance, so I just hoped the pot was big enough to keep people in. On the turn I would've called a raise and hoped for a spade on the river.

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 04:09 PM

Remember that time you LRRed and it killed all your action?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bozlax

08-02-2005, 04:18 PM

The primary reason I made this play (and, in fact, posted this hand) was the read I had on MP3. I was, I'd say, 75% sure that he'd raise me if I limped, based on the previous 40 hands. The table read was also good, with him on my near-left, that there'd be a couple of cold-callers between us.

Part of it that I didn't mention in my original post was that while a lot of people at this table saw the flop, the field normaly thinned considerably going to the turn, so I felt I had to make my money while I could. I had another hand (99, I think) that I raised preflop from LP after 2 limpers, 1 person cold-called behind me, blinds folded, limpers called, flop came jack-high rags, folded to me, I bet and the table folded. So, I thought I would try something different.

DeathDonkey

08-02-2005, 04:29 PM

This is fine given the read, you guys are too rigid.

-DeathDonkey

bozlax

08-02-2005, 04:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Remember that time you LRRed and it killed all your action?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, when did that happen?

I was pretty sure the action was going to dry up on the flop, regardless (see post, below). And, like I said, this isn't something I do often (once in 60K hands, I think), but it seemed like a good place to do it.

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 04:31 PM

His PFR was SEVENTY FIVE? I hope you buddy listed him. IMMEDIATELY.

hizo1

08-02-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you guys are too rigid.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what your mom said /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

bozlax

08-02-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
His PFR was SEVENTY FIVE? I hope you buddy listed him. IMMEDIATELY.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, dude, I think you're getting lightning bolts in your eyes. I just estimated my belief that he'd raise me at 75%.

bozlax

08-02-2005, 04:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys are too rigid.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what your mom said /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa! 78 whole posts under your belt and your contributions to this discussion have been telling somebody they're in the wrong forum without reading the lead-up posts and throwing a mom joke at DD? I take it that "How To Win Friends And Influence People" seminar didn't sink in.

08-02-2005, 04:47 PM

lol agreed,
nice post for my daily dose of humor, yesterday it was the 5 yo olds in the gym post, i highly reccomend checking that out.

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His PFR was SEVENTY FIVE? I hope you buddy listed him. IMMEDIATELY.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, dude, I think you're getting lightning bolts in your eyes. I just estimated my belief that he'd raise me at 75%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just out of curiousity, can you explain this? It's a little difficult to make this estimate without seeing a complete maniac who you'd beaten out of a pot. But you may be right.

hizo1

08-02-2005, 04:50 PM

that's the first thing that went through my head after I posted it, "wow I am a massive tool". sorry, I guess I should learn my place /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

DD no offense taken I hope? please make fun of me in some way if it'll make you feel better.

DeathDonkey

08-02-2005, 04:51 PM

I took it as a somewhat funny joke but if not, I know moderator monkeys who can do some damage /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-DeathDonkey

DeathDonkey

08-02-2005, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
DD no offense taken I hope?

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I play I'm used to being berated, you'll have to do better than that to upset me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-DeathDonkey

hizo1

08-02-2005, 04:52 PM

can someone please enlighten me as to what reads are appropriate for LRR? are there any other cases apart from someone always raising your limps? thanks

DeathDonkey

08-02-2005, 04:54 PM

You just need to be pretty damn sure its going to get raised. I never LRR and I don't think it hurts my game, if you aren't sure when to do it, don't do it and you won't miss out on anything.

-DeathDonkey

McGahee

08-02-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]

DD no offense taken I hope? please make fun of me in some way if it'll make you feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe something along the lines of you liking Donkeys a little too much? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 04:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You just need to be pretty damn sure its going to get raised. I never LRR and I don't think it hurts my game, if you aren't sure when to do it, don't do it and you won't miss out on anything.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason DD's avatar doesn't look much like a "Death" donkey. I'm pretty sure my avatar is more intimidating.

McGahee

08-02-2005, 05:00 PM

I think the Dolphins mascot is probably more intimidating.
Is that the donkey from Shrek?

DeathDonkey

08-02-2005, 05:00 PM

I'm so gonna bust you in the tournament on Thursday.

-DeathDonkey

baronzeus

08-02-2005, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm so gonna bust you in the tournament on Thursday.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd make a last longer bet, but I don't like stealing.

tiltaholic

08-02-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm so gonna bust you in the tournament on Thursday.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd make a last longer bet, but I don't like stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

bounty! bounty!

bozlax

08-02-2005, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiousity, can you explain this? It's a little difficult to make this estimate without seeing a complete maniac who you'd beaten out of a pot. But you may be right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd been with the guy for 40-some hands at this point. In that time, I'd limped into the pot 5 or 6 times (including my 2nd or 3rd hand at the table) and he had raised me each time (including that first time where he'd managed to push me out of the pot...hence my read). All I really meant to say is that I was convinced that he was going to raise me if I just limped.