QQ

[POKhER]

Reads - Both Passives
SB: 32/4.5/.80 - Not seen him do anythign strange yet/.
UTG: 44/0/.42 - Seen this guy be aggressive(suprisingly) betting with nothing(Donk bet?) and generally seems clueless.




PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

<font color="red"> I dont think they hold a two, So i raise to see if i get 3bet. I dont so i assume no one holds a 2 </font>
Turn: (8.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

<font color="red"> Raise the turn? He bet into me(I PFR'ed and raised flop) or Call here? </font>

River: (11.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

<font color="red">I figure with possible trips, Flush? Why bet? But these idiots might call 1 bet even if bet into with nothing, Or be check raising me? Odd play... </font>
Final Pot: 11.50 BB

<font color="red">How do you play it? What are your reads on SB/UTG? Think i won or lost? </font>

[aK13]

Raise the turn again.

Value bet the river.

[benneh]

"I figure with possible trips, Flush? Why bet? But these idiots might call 1 bet even if bet into with nothing, Or be check raising me? Odd play... "

because no one is likely to have a deuce and the flush was backdoor.

[MATT111]

Raise the turn. Bet the river.

[Webster]

I have recently played a bunch of hands at this level on a Rake project (normally 2/4 up to 5/10) and I'll tell ya - if you have not played there for a while it is an experience.

No matter what you think - 80% of those guys playing CRAZY, they raise at random times, limp with great hands and just play like they are on crack.

I have folded some pretty good hands to obvious straights and flushs with 5 players and all 5 are bluffing.

Every thing you know about real poker gets thrown out the window. Pot odds are useless because you are always thinking about implied odds.

I would do what you did. The guy could have anything or nothing. You did what you had to do and now it's time to duck and cover.

I think you lost - he does not SEEM like an aggressive player but .. . . .

Grinderswarehouse - NOT just another BLOG (http://www.grinderswarehouse.com)

[POKhER]

Kind of thought the same after playing it through and wanted confirmation.

Result:<font color="white">
I love those guys, SB held AKs and didnt 3bet and UTG held 7xo </font>

[POKhER]

Lol i know, These two are psychos. Donk bets, Not PFRING great hands Etc. It sent me into confusion and i called down.

[MATT111]

I think you are ahead at least 80% of the time.

[flo]

you have a strong hand and you are ahead most of the time. Raise the turn and bet the river. If you get 3bet on the turn, call down.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
I would do what you did. The guy could have anything or nothing. You did what you had to do and now it's time to duck and cover.

[/ QUOTE ]
WEAK-TIGHT! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PJM1206]

If you believe that UTG is passive it is not likely he would bet into PFR with nothing. I would think he has a duece probably A2s otherwise his bet makes no sense. Although you have seen him aggressive at times I think you are behind. SB is cold calling so he has to have a piece of the flop as well. I will be weak tight too on this hand and play as you did. I think UTG has u beat

[Duerig]

With 3 players in, I like raising the turn. I would bet the river.

[TomBrooks]

My guess: UTG had trips or two pair. I like the way you played it.

Edit after rereading and Groking the part about UTG being a donk bettor. Raise the turn, bet the river.

[@bsolute_luck]

do you understand why you should raise the turn? do you understand why he bet into you again? what do you think villain thought you had?

learn to answer these questions and you can begin to think outside the realm of the 2 cards in front of you.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn again.

Value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn. Bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

These seem to get pretty well to the point.

Don't be weak tight. You have a great hand. Particularly when checked to on the river, you cannot let this go without getting a bet in.

[Fantam]

I think UTG's donk bet on the turn looked a bit strange. If he was a good player, I might raise his turn bet and fold if he then 3-bet, because he may have been slowplaying trips on the turn. There again what kind of hand would a good player limp with UTG that contained a 2?

I would probably have also called on the turn, as UTG might have been betting with trip 2's, although I consider it more likely that he just paired a T.

However, when both SB and UTG check the river, I would fire away with a value bet. I doubt either player would check/raise but if it happened, I would probably fold to SB, but call against UTG.

[POKhER]

[ QUOTE ]

1, Do you understand why you should raise the turn?

Yeh i thought i should have also

2, Do you understand why he bet into you again?
No i dont understand this. I suppose if he has me on AKs/AK/AQs i wouldnt raise the flop, if he puts me on TT im still ahead(AA/KK/QQ/JJ/99 even 88). Then he bets the turn and checks the river... It doesnt make any sense.


3, what do you think villain thought you had?
From his perspective he should fear trips, Overpair, Set, Overcards(Doubtfull i raised flop)


[/ QUOTE ]


Whats your take on your own questions, I just want to see if im being a narrowminded player and not given enough credit.

I accept i should have raised turn/bet river.

[@bsolute_luck]

1. why you should raise the turn? you said on the flop that you didn't believe he had a 2. based on that, even if he had T7 for a 2 pair you have a better two pair of Qs + 2s.

based on your read, it is possible be could have TT or 77, but generally people will c/r this, again based on your read- a tricky player could play this way. the key is to begin to have faith in your reads, which sound pretty good in this hand- go beyond the PT stats. and of all the hands villain could be donking it up with, the least of your worries at this point is TT, which is just the suckiest luck really, but you can't limit him to trips based on 2 goofy bets on the type of player he is.

so all that to say is you probably have the best hand.

2. Do you understand why he bet into you again?
it is doubtful that T helped you is what he's "saying". "i think you have UI overcards and raised the flop for a free card which i'm so slick, i'm not going to give it to you." the "Free card", you'll find, is waaaay overused. you're limiting your hands too strictly just because you raised the flop.

3. i put in 2 what i think the villain thinks you had. just learn to think that way and, while it probably won't be as useful now seeing as goofballs call down with tons of junk, it will help you to think deeper as you move up in stakes and play more aggressive/smarter players.

i understand why you checked the river based on what you thought the villains had, but you're giving them waaay too much credit typically

[albedoa]

This hand is making me ill.

Look at your reads, then look at your play.
Look at your hand, then look at your play.
Look at the board, then look at your play.

"I hate money," is the only commentary I read.

[POKhER]

Thanks absolute, I never really look at my opponants thinking "what does he think i hold?". Usually trying to think "What does he hold".

As i said in my first post "Raise the turn" as it was a though t i had whilst playing it.

I feel quite clueless lately whilst playing, Shall revise SSH and continue to post here as ive learnt so much.

Thanks for everyones responses,
POKhER.