I play bad ... 3 4/8 hands

[DiceyPlay]

I'm trying to get more value out of my hands so I'm trying to bet/raise more on the turn and river.

Hand 1:

It's your typical loose passive table, but there are 3 players that I felt like saying sup' bro to. I have 6d3d in the cutoff. There's 5 limpers to me including the two of the 3 suspected 2+2ers. I look at the players behind me and they look ready to limp. I limp. 7 limpers and the blinds to a flop of AsTs3h. Early position suspect 2+2er bets. Everyone calls to me. I call with my almost 9 to 1 shot to improve. 8 players see the turn. There's 17 small bets in the pot. Turn is a 6c. Same bettor bets. 3 callers to me and I raise. 1 call behind me and original bettor 3-bets. 1 caller to me. What should I do?

Hand 2:

Different table. Last table got too tight, so I table changed to another 4/8 - this one has a half kill. One player (villain) at the table has 3500 in white in front of him and clearly doesn't know what he's doing. But he thinks he's good. Almost all the other players are descent, but too loose. I have AdQc utg and raise. Two callers to villain who 3-bets. A couple of cold-callers to me and I call. 6 or 7 to the flop for 3 bets each. Flop comes 4cJcJh. Checked to me and I bet. 4 callers including villain. Turn is the Ac. Villain says he has an ace. I bet, 2 callers including villain. River is Kc. So board ia 4cJcJhAcKc and I have AdQc. I bet and there's one caller to villain who raises. It's folded to me, what should I do?

Hand 3:

Last table broke and 3 of us moved to another table. I've only played 5 hands at the new table. One of the players I was playing against is immediately on my left. He seems weak-descent. The other player from the last table is 3 seats to my left. He is hard to predict, he bets scare cards and likes to see a lot of flops, but he's no slouch in my opinion. I have 7d7c in utg+1 and I limp. The player on my immediate left raises (I immediately think I'm going to need to hit a set). To my surprise 5 or 6 people see the flop for 2 bets. Flop come JhTd7s (woo-hoo I think). I plan to check raise (in retrospect that's STUPID, I should have leveraged the btf raisers aggression and tried to clear the field). I check and the btf raiser bets and the very next guy raises - he's unknows to me, but he seemed reasonable on the only 5 hands I've seen him play. There's several callers to me and I call. The turn is an offsuit 6. I check not knowing what I should do. Guy on my left checks and the flop raiser bets. A couple of callers and I call. btf raiser calls all in. River is an Ace. flop raiser bets and it's folded to me. What should I do?

Thanks all,

-DP

[SackUp]

Hand 1 - Call the turn 3 bet. I would normally fold the river UI, but with this enormous pot it might be worth seeing for one bet.

Hand 2 - Too much money in the pot not to call this one. Make him show me AK or AJ.

Hand 3 - The flop is somewhat coordinated, but no flush draws so I'm not super worried about pushing people out. I'm kinda lost on how many people are in and what positions they are in, but I think I call the two bets on the flop then c/r the river. Bet the river. Call down UI if 3 bet on turn.

[onegymrat]

Hi DiceyPlay,

Dude, do the suit thing in Instant Graemlins. I can't see a damn thing. Old age. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hand 1: You must imagine being in the 3-bettor's position. What would he reraise you with that you are ahead of...nothing sensible. If you call this turn, it would be silly not to call the river. I would muck.

I don't like this hand at all DP, and you know why. The problem stems from preflop. These situations you will face more often than not. Muck preflop.

Hand 2: [ QUOTE ]
One player (villain) at the table has 3500 in white in front of him

[/ QUOTE ] Huh?! Jackpot money?
You should call the river and hope he didn't pray to the poker gods with JJ, AA, or KK.

Your flop bet into six players is suicidal. There are 18 bets or so in the pot. No one is folding. This is bad timing to make this move. Check-raising a late position bettor is preferable should you need to play on. I would have gone into chicken mode and check-folded.

Hand 3: [ QUOTE ]
(in retrospect that's STUPID, I should have leveraged the btf raisers aggression and tried to clear the field)

[/ QUOTE ] Exactamundo!

But that being done, when the flop comes back to you 2 bets, it's now time to 3-bet. Get their money in while the betting is cheap. You may lose them when it doubles. Too many draws out there to pay you off.

I think you played this hand WAY too passively. You may be behind to 89, JJ or TT, but you have to also realize what YOU have. I believe the odds of flopping a set is 1 in 7. It sure seems less than that to me from how I play. So when you have the best of it, it's time to make the best of it. By not finding the best way to increase your profit, you are leaving a lot of money at the table. If you lost this hand, so bet it, but it's still not time to be clever or passive.

[DiceyPlay]

”Dude, do the suit thing in Instant Graemlins. I can't see a damn thing. Old age.”

Huh?

Hand 1:
I called the re-raise as did one other. The river was a blank. It was checked to me (last to act) and I bet. Both opponents called and mhig. I know you don’t like playing less then mediocre starting cards pre-flop. But I think they have merit in loose passive games. They’re easy to get away from when you don’t hit and you drag huge pots when you do hit. Plus they’re good for mixing your opponents up - I mean when you’re in the middle of a muck fest and the only hands you’ve shown down in the last two hours have been AA-JJ + AK, and then you show this down, you can visibly see the players get apprehensive/confused/dumbfounded. In this case I was getting 8-1 pre-flop and 15-1 on the flop. I didn’t like the Ace-Ten on the board because many players like to play AT, but hey, I’m trying to get more value out of my hands, so I raised. It turned out ok.

As a couple of asides:

At the same table I completed my small blind holding 63o against 6 or 7 limpers. I flopped a straight and bet. Everyone called. The turn completed a flush board and everyone checked to the button who bet. I folded as did everyone else. Then several hands later the same player bet into a turn-completes-flush board and got called down. He showed top pair in that case. I PLAY BAD!

Last night I played in another 4/8 and held T8o on the button. 6 limpers to me and I limped. Flop came 5s7h9s. By the time the action got to me it was raised and I called. I called a single bet on the turn also. The river was a brick. But I was drawing to a HUGE pot with the T8o. I stopped counting when everyone called the turn. I had 6 clean outs and there were probably 20 big bets in the pot at that point. I think that’s +ev, no?

The moral is you also get roped into losing a bunch of money when you play weak starters too. But still, in loose passive games, I’ll keep playing them when many players have already entered the pot and I don’t think there will be a raise.

Hand 2:

“One player (villain) at the table has 3500 in white in front of him
Huh?! Jackpot money?”

I don’t know … just a schmuck I think??

I re-raised with my nut flush. It got capped and I called. There was 1 over-caller too. Villain had AJo. Over-caller had Tc for second nut flush. At least some people play worse then me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 3:

I should have 3 bet the flop with all those players in. I ended up just meekly calling to the river and MHIG. I focused on 89 for some reason. Other guy had JT for 2-pair on the flop. I always think this in those situations:

If my hand is no good, I don’t want to raise and toss a bunch of money into the pot. And if my hand is good, I can get more money in the pot by letting people call. But there’s a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) in my head when I’m thinking these thoughts. I think I should be raising both for information and to knock other players out, which increases the chances of me winning the pot at showdown.

I really would appreciate the thoughts of anyone who cares to contribute.

Thanks,

-DP

[onegymrat]

The moral is you also get roped into losing a bunch of money when you play weak starters too.
That's exactly my point. Although one may think it's +EV to play loosely because it is a very loose, passive table, but I think it takes away EV at times when we go too far down the starting hands list.

The point of this game is to create an edge over the other players. One way to do so is to enter the game with stronger hands than they have. If we stoop to their level and start playing any somewhat connected hand just because it's only one bet to us, then what edge do we have?