Level 7, 2 all-ins, I call with KTs

[45suited]

Anyone disagree with this call? I'm in the BB and felt like I was getting too good of a price to fold here. Comments appreciated...

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 5: CyrCyr ( $855 )
Seat 8: roorglass419 ( $680 )
Seat 6: HERO ( $1515 )
Seat 3: Heavenly929 ( $619 )
Seat 7: greathodi ( $2745 )
Seat 10: jkomd ( $1586 )

Blinds(150/300)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Th Kh ]
greathodi folds.
roorglass419 folds.
jkomd folds.
Heavenly929 is all-In [619]
CyrCyr is all-In [705]
HERO calls [555].

[diconoclastx]

This one is tough. You are getting 24% on the call. I'd say you chances are for sure less than 1/3rd. The first guy prolly has you beat with an ace, and the 2nd caller for sure has you beat. So it is a pretty marginal call. Considering the stack sizes, and avoiding big confrontations, I would probably lay this one down. But calling is OK too i guess.

[HighestCard]

Interesting... your getting 3.2 odds on your money, which is great if villians have Ax (x not k, 10) and a pp below 10 (1.8 underdog for you here). If villians x is a king or a 10 you are about a 2.8 underdog. The only really bad position you could be in is a pp of 10+ for one hand, but I can easily see this with a caller infront. I have to fold here.

Go ahead and flame me on this though

[45suited]

Here's how I looked at it:

Obviously the first push means nothing.

The second one means that he has a good hand, but still, I'm getting tremendous odds to call (3.2:1). I didn't like taking the hit to my stack, but I didn't really think that I could pass it up, especially since I'm hardly guaranteed ITM if I fold, I'm still alive and kicking if I lose, and if I win, I have a really nice stack to work with.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

3:1 odds are nice heads up, but not against 2 other hands for 1/3 of your stack (and especially not in a situation where you're often dominated). Easy fold.

[45suited]

What about the fact that my situation is not hugely different if I fold than if I call and lose? If I fold and SB wins, I'm still the shortstack.

Not arguing whether it's a fold or not, but I don't really think it's "easy" given the chipstacks here.

[45suited]

one bump before I post the results...

i think this is interesting and i'd like to hear some more opinions if anyone has some to offer...

[schwza]

i would fold here. as others have pointed out, you're at best going to be getting only marginally better pot odds than what you need. it's a little worse than it looks because the guy with the presumably better hand (SB) has more chips.

and the extra chips are very significant to your stack - you can fold your SB and be left with 3.5x or if you call and lose and fold your SB you'll have 1.5x. you'll have FE because you'll have enough chips to cripple everyone but the leader.

if you win, you'll have 3k, but it won't take long before the shortie busts, so you won't have long to steal.

i'd play here with KQs, but KTs is a little too weak, imo.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I would fold. You may be correct about having ok pot odds vs your chances of winning (probably 25%-40% chance of winning vs 3.2:1 from pot), but it is very close. If you fold, you're down to 5 people in the next hand and in SB... I prefer to try and steal than get into a marginal confrontation w/ 2 people that appear to like their hand, especially being so close to the money. Take advantage of your position here and fold, IMO.

[45suited]

Button had Ks6s, SB had Ac7c. So it turned out that I was getting good odds (2:1 to win the hand, 3.2:1 to call).

Ended up losing the hand to SB. I still think it was very close, don't know what I'd do next time. Meh.

[jeffraider]

Really interesting hand! I think my inclination would be to fold because my stack is perfect to push and get folds the next hand, on the other hand you'll be left with some working chips if you lose and you could be a big stack if you win, and your hand isn't half bad. I think if I came across this exact spot I'd fold but definitely wonder about it.

[gildwulf]

Man, this is tough...it depends how much fold equity you think you have if you call and lose, I guess...5XBB vs +3XBB is not a huge difference, but doubling up here would be huge...I would say call depending on reads.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
...5XBB vs +3XBB is not a huge difference, but doubling up here would be huge...

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking Gildwulf. And the fact that I'm hardly guaranteed anything by folding really played alot into my decision. Even if I fold, I'm going to have to push at some point anyway (granted with a little more FE).

The one thing that I deleted from the HH was my use of my time bank! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Man, it felt like a close call.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...5XBB vs +3XBB is not a huge difference, but doubling up here would be huge...

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking Gildwulf. And the fact that I'm hardly guaranteed anything by folding really played alot into my decision. Even if I fold, I'm going to have to push at some point anyway (granted with a little more FE).

The one thing that I deleted from the HH was my use of my time bank! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Man, it felt like a close call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, this is a very, very close decision.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, this is tough...it depends how much fold equity you think you have if you call and lose, I guess...5XBB vs +3XBB is not a huge difference, but doubling up here would be huge...I would say call depending on reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

you never have 5x after the hand. if you fold, you have 4x, if you call and win you have more.

[BadMongo]

This one hurts my brain.

After fooling around with poker stove, I'd say you probably have around 30% equity in this pot should you choose to play (rough estimate). So you're getting the right odds to call, but just barely.

I think I'd lean towards a fold. I disagree with the people who are saying your chip position won't be affected very much wether you call or not. If you call and win, great you have a big stack and can bully the table. No argument there. However, if you call and lose (which will happen about 70% of the time) you are crippled with only ~500 chips after posting the SB next hand. If you fold, you will have ~1000 after posting. This is a significant difference, and I think I like my chances better if I fold.

[barry111]

I wonder what Easybays tool would say about this one? Anyone?

[curtains]

I don't care that much about chip position. I feel like worrying about it muddles your play and has you pass up -EV situations. Of course sometimes it matters, I'm oversimplifying, but I don't want to find myself routinely passing up clear +EV spots so I can be above some imaginary line of chips that I can still steal with.

I guess this is counter to what a lot of posters have said, but it's generally the way I play.


Anyway you are getting a touch over 3-1 here... It's a tough decision. Also you have to take into account the fact that if you beat the SB, but lose to the button you get like 240 chips from them.