Tough Spot

[fizzleboink]

Generally tight-passive bonus whores.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero???</font>

Funny how they wake up on the turn with a card that couldn't have helped me more. This is my first HH post so please have mercy if I messed something up. I'd give my thoughts but I don't want to influence any replies.

[Dave G.]

You should always include your thoughts with your post (but not results). It's only by analysing thought processes that weaknesses in play can be found.

I'd say here you're probably up against someone who just made 2 pair with their ace, or a slowplayed 2 pair / set / straight. Without reads and no strong redraws I'm pretty sure you can fold this.

[hemstock]

Yeah it smells like two pair or a slowplayed set or straight. I think you can fold this.

[fizzleboink]

Ok well I had put them both on straight/flush draws or a pair. Why would they slowplay on such a draw heavy board? That is what made the decision hard for me, is slow-playing a viable strategy on the flop with a board like that (for the villains)?

i say A8 or A9 got 2 pair or someone flopped a straight and slowplayed it (yes even with the flush draw). I would fold here.

[hizo1]

Grunch.

This looks like a donk bet by SB, reraise to protect your hand from SB and for value against MP2. Call down a cap unless another straight card falls and there's allota akshon.

Now that I read the other posts I think that a slowplayed straight is possible and two pair likely against passive opponents. hmm. big pot though. I think I'd call right now and fold to further strength from either player. Is this bad?

[HentaiGaijin]

Grunch.
MP2 could be slow playing trips or a straight or betting a flush draw, but since you are last to act I think you have an advantage. Raise the turn. If you are reraised you can release your hand. If they call down I think they're showing weakness and I'd raise or bet on a non-heart river for value.

[grjr]

Even without seeing the turn action I think with this kind of connected flop you should check the flop and be prepared to bail on the turn. With 3 other players a flop bet isn't going to fold everyone so why waste it?

I've gotten into a habit of betting flops like this myself and it's costing me money. Lately I've been trying to pay more attention to the texture of the flop and not burn money unnecessarily. I have a ways to go.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally tight-passive bonus whores.


[/ QUOTE ]

F-O-L-D

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.
MP2 could be slow playing trips or a straight or betting a flush draw, but since you are last to act I think you have an advantage. Raise the turn. If you are reraised you can release your hand. If they call down I think they're showing weakness and I'd raise or bet on a non-heart river for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

This smells like spew to me. I take that back. This definately IS spew. Hero has Ace high here. What is he betting/raising with?

Edit: Disregard the Ace high comment. I forgot about the ace on the turn. Still spewing though.

[HentaiGaijin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.
MP2 could be slow playing trips or a straight or betting a flush draw, but since you are last to act I think you have an advantage. Raise the turn. If you are reraised you can release your hand. If they call down I think they're showing weakness and I'd raise or bet on a non-heart river for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

This smells like spew to me. I take that back. This definately IS spew. Hero has Ace high here. What is he betting/raising with?

Edit: Disregard the Ace high comment. I forgot about the ace on the turn. Still spewing though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so do you call or fold? Again, I'm posting my grunches to learn and they aren't necessarily going to be good strategy, but how I would play the hand. If I'm wrong, I'm here to learn. I appreciate you letting me know you think my grunch is wrong though.

If raising is too loose, I'm going to fold. I think the value in the raise would be to take control on the river, but if these guys are playing tight and the turn raise comes across as a message of strength then you should get out of the hand. Calling here seems like it doesn't achieve anything.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch.
MP2 could be slow playing trips or a straight or betting a flush draw, but since you are last to act I think you have an advantage. Raise the turn. If you are reraised you can release your hand. If they call down I think they're showing weakness and I'd raise or bet on a non-heart river for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

This smells like spew to me. I take that back. This definately IS spew. Hero has Ace high here. What is he betting/raising with?

Edit: Disregard the Ace high comment. I forgot about the ace on the turn. Still spewing though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so do you call or fold? Again, I'm posting my grunches to learn and they aren't necessarily going to be good strategy, but how I would play the hand. If I'm wrong, I'm here to learn. I appreciate you letting me know you think my grunch is wrong though.

If raising is too loose, I'm going to fold. I think the value in the raise would be to take control on the river, but if these guys are playing tight and the turn raise comes across as a message of strength then you should get out of the hand. Calling here seems like it doesn't achieve anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, it's gotta be a fold. If you raise it's probably going to be capped back to you so you've spent 4 BB's and have a pair of aces against AT LEAST one player who really likes his hand. I don't see how you gain any control this way.

I think checking the flop and folding to a bad card or aggression on the turn is the best play. If this is the way you play your overcard hands (and a lot of us do) it might be a good idea to go back and review a bunch of them to see if you're burning money like I was/am.

[fizzleboink]

I was pretty borderline with betting the flop. I figure if I didn't have the button I would have checked that flop. I think if you check the flop too much with overs people are going to catch on that you only bet when you hit the flop, and you might end up losing more bets this way.

[McGahee]

Yeah, there aren't many worse flops for AK. I'm an autobetter, and I would not bet w/ 3 opponents in this hand.

[fizzleboink]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, there aren't many worse flops for AK. I'm an autobetter, and I would not bet w/ 3 opponents in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about 2 opponents? What about 2 opponents and being OOP? I'm having a hard time defining the line on overcards.

[McGahee]

I try to follow Jennifer Harman's advice of betting the flop ~90% of the time after I raise PF (warning: you should not be doing this if there are 5-6 people seeing every flop in the game you play). Against 2 auto-blind defenders I might even bet this terrible flop, since they could have any 2 cards. Against 2 EP limpers I'd probably check, because it's nearly impossible that two different limpers didn't hit this flop. The same goes for typical coldcalling hands, so I'd probably check OOP as well.

[Duerig]

I would call. I'd guess you're up against 2 pair. You have a lot of outs vs 2 pair.

[LesWormMurphy]

I'd call. I don't see why you'd bet with Ace-high, then fold with top pair. You'll lose sometimes, but you've got top pair.