How do you do your analysis so fast??

This is a question from the total beginner. When reading the analysis of the hands played and the reasoning behind this or that way to play a hand - well, it all seems logical. Given a calm place, an hour or so, I'll be able to follow the logic. Very nice. But the question is - how do you manage to do this during the game? Or is it a trick, and you just have to remember the results of the pre-made calculations? Or... something else? I mean I'm not a retard, not that bad with math, but I barely have time to (approximately!) calculate my pot odds (leave alone thinking about what others might have), and often even not that.

I've also noticed something - when trying to reason I'm internally "speaking" the words, as if talking to myself. I know a little about fast reading methods and this is considered a big error there. Do you "speak the words" when you contemplate your move? (I mean along the lines of "If he has KK there's a 30% chance that...")?

[bds]

How many tables are you playing? The more tables you are playing, the harder it is. Also, the more you play, the quicker you can do the analysis. You also develop more experience about the range of hands that are likely to behave in the way the hand is playing out. Typically, I don't speak all the words in my head. However, sometimes, I make a goal for an hour or so of actually speaking out loud my analysis just to make sure I am focused property on the game. Keep trying, try to analyze hands posted here before you read the responses, read lots of poker books - it will get easier.

[POKhER]

Hey mate, Good post.

I no longer consider myself a "beginner" but i do not consider myself intermediate as theres so MUCH to learn about this game. Admitedly, You can check/Call/Fold sounds simple... But when you bring in Equity/Pot odds/Implied odds/Strategys(Check/raise etc) it soons adds up.

First thing that i normally see is my pot odds.

Second thing, Am i needing to improve or do i most likly hold the best hand? Bet/Riase if i think i hold the best.

Check/Call(IF I HAVE THE ODDS or IMPLIED ODDS) to improve to what most likly will be the better hand once i hit it.

Now on flush's i MIGHT bring "Equity" into it. If i have say the nuts flush that i hit 35% of the time by the river(with turn/river cards to come) and i have 3 callers including me. I'm putting 25% of the cash in, So i have 10% EDGE.

EVERY BET THAT GOES IN THE POT IS MORE MONEY FOR ME.

Usually equity doesnt come into it.

So my chain of thought is either:
Pot odds, Odds to improve.....

OR

Am i leading? YES most likly, BET/RAISE, What cards can he have that he "bet the flop with, didnt 3bet the flop with... then bet the turn? Did he just hit two pair? Has he been crazy in the past hands with nothing? Am i now behind? Ok i think so" CHECK/CALL...

Its really hard to explain, its all so situation dependant so the best thing to do is go to the micro forum, Post what you would do.

You'll be told your wrong, and corrected... argue why(Maturely) and learn whats best. Accept when your wrong so you improve.

Post hands you think you screwed up on, Post close calls... DONT POST BAD BEATS THEY ARE BORING.

GOOD LUCK,
POKhER.

Another thing that helps is to lay out some hands and get a feel for the make up of hands....lay em out in a square 7 cards by 7 cards(for 7 card games) and look at hands vert,horiz, and diag. Get a "FEEL" for the composition of hands that occur regularly.

For hold em, also lay out several two card starters(use the number of players you usually play with) and analyze the strength of them...then flop 3 card and re-analyze the hands. Go through the turn and the river re-analyzing after each. Do it with half the players and note how the strength of the best hand changes...

These exercises will help develop a "feel," but if you force yourself to count outs and figure odds, you'll get quicker at it.

Practice, practice, practice

I want to add the disclaimer that I'm not near as experienced as many of these guys, I'm just passing on what someone told me to do that has seemed to help....

[KingMarc]

It's just experience. As you progress and gain more practice, you don't have to think about things as much -- it just comes natural. It's like any other task, riding a bike, learning to swim, etc.

[LesWormMurphy]

Here's what I did-- and it seems to have helped, and still is helping. Get a play money account with something like Party Poker. Then pick up a book, preferably "Small Stakes Hold 'Em" by Ed Miller-- read it through once without reverting back to any section. Once your done reading, unquestionably, as a beginner you'll be confused with all this new information. What you do then is go back to the beginning of the book, go section by section and apply what you've learned to the play money games.

For instance, if your learning how to count the pot-- don't look at the numbers, count the chips as bets. So if everybody in a hand folded, the small blind completed and the big blind checked, you know that there are 2 small bets in the pot. For every additional player, you add appropriately.

Do that for a couple of hours.

Once you get the hang of it, and believe me, you will-- you start applying pot odds based on the bets you've counted, not the exact money count. Translating your pot odds is easier when you count bets, not money. So if there are 20 small bets in the pot, and somebody bets the flop, figure that you are getting paid 10bigbets-to-1, count your outs, and see if its profitable.

Do that for a few hours (Spread thru out the week, not all at once)-- Then learn to count outs, practice that, then devote a session entirely to remembering who raised, and at the showdown remember what cards he played. Do that for hours at a time, then apply everything you possibly can.

After all that, reread the book from start to finish-- things are going to make more and more sense and one day it'll just click. You'll be at a table and everything will just gel together smoothly, and you'll know what to do and why to do it.

When that happens, keep studying and keep studying. Keep coming back to this website and reading posts. You'll see that in a matter of weeks you'll go from asking them to answering them.

It just takes time.

Take care.

[fireman664]

you do it so fast at the table, because of the "hour"s you spend away from the table analyzing so in depthly. You begin to recognize the same situations that are troubling when they present themselves. If you think about it, there arent THAT many times in a session that you are faced with really hard decisions (this factors in the times you make the wrong one, but are aware of it).....hope this makes sense.

[Mason Hellmuth]

Twodimes (http://www.twodimes.net/poker/)

[AKQJ10]

Great question, and great responses.

First off, I sure hope you're only playing one table at a time to start off. If not, you should be.

As for the reasoning behind each hand, just accept that at first it's going to seem strange and foreign to you, and you will miss a LOT of relevant details at the table. If you play online, take hand histories and review them yourself, first, with plenty of time to think through your own play, calculate odds, etc. Then if you're still not sure you played correctly, post in a relevant forum (including this one) and ask for advice.

It's harder at brick-and-mortar casino poker, but even then reviewing hands in your head and rethinking your logic is very important. As an example, here's notes from a $1-2 NLHE hand I played at Foxwoods. I'm just learning NLHE, so don't take my remarks as gospel -- the point is how reviewing the hand helped me flesh out my decisions:

[ QUOTE ]
1. I'm in seat 10, player in seat 4 has been "stalking" me all day - maybe because when I sat down, I pushed with JJ, beat his KJ or something. Anyway, he seems to have it in for me. At one point he asked the dealer about my stack size, not realizing I was out of a hand! He's also been fairly wild with his medium pocket pairs.

Preflop, I pick up AQ in early position, raise to $10 (5x, raises don't seem to get much respect in this game). He reraises me all-in (~$100). I call.

MY THOUGHTS AT THE TABLE

He's been taking shots at me. He could have a hand to beat me, but more likely he doesn't. And if he does have something like AK or KK to dominate me, I've still got outs.

MY ANALYSIS NOW

Possible hands and hand combinations:

AA 3, KK 6, QQ 3, AK 12, JJ/TT/99/88 6 each, KJ 16, AQ 9


Estimated range:

AA, KK, QQ, AK (24) - dominate me: 30%
JJ, TT, 99, 88 KJ -(48) horserace: 35% (pool)
AJ, KQ - I dominate: 20%
Pure bluff: 15%

AA: <1 out -- I'm 7%
KK, QQ, AK: 3 outs -- 28%
JJ, TT, 99, 88: I have 6 outs -- 42%
KJ: He has 6 outs -- 63%
AJ, KQ: He has 3 outs -- 73%
Pure bluff (say, JT) -- 63%


He dominates: 3/24 reduces to 1/8... (7 * 0.28 + 1 * 0.07) / 8 = 0.25 equity is mine
Horserace: 24/16 reduces to 3/2... (3 * 0.42 + 2 * 0.63) / 5 = 0.50
I dominate: 0.73
Pure bluff: 0.63


Weighted by my estimated probability
.4905 - even money

Pot is offering $123:$100, or about 6:5, so it's a good call.

RESULT
He showed QQ and held up to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, i could never ever ever do all that math at the table, but reviewing the hand helps tune my intuition. When I posted this in the small-stakes NL forum, someone suggested that this would take a really aggressive opponent to make this analysis correct, so I don't think I played it correctly. But the point is, the analysis helps me make better decisions even when I don't have time to think this hard.

I just need to do this more often. /images/graemlins/wink.gif