Holdem is easy.

[john kane]

Right, ive been playing for quite a few years to fill time and the last 15 months ive been playing seriously, 15 hours a week approximately. I play NL holdem short handed. I honestly believe i have reached a point where i only make possibly 1 incorrect call or bet or raise or fold every 2-3 hours, which will cost me max 5-6 dollars. I play the 1-2NL, 200 buck sit downs. This year ive made just over $10,000 playing part time, roughly 15 hours a week, but had to stop playing now and again for exams. But my hourly rate when i kept records for january, feb, and march was from memory $37/hour, pretty good i think.
I dont play ultra aggressive, but i raise a lot by 2-4BB when i have postion and then act accordingly due to position and who im up against (i usually raise with position though).
So anyway, recently, in the last month, ive found it getting just so simple, i know what the best decision and i play correct and whenever i lose i know its simply been the cards havent hit and have for the others and its just good decisions with bad outcomes.
Part of me thinks i should move up limits, but i dont want to, i wont feel comfortable playing 2-4NL, 400 buck sit downs, i wouldnt be able to play my A game style. My bankroll could just afford it, but i wouldnt like making any +EV pretty big calls knowing how much i could lose in a session.
Any else ever gone through this? Ive been thinking maybe i could switch to MTTs for a month or so to try and play peerfect and to get lucky with the cards (as you have to in MTTs, not 'get lucky', but simply not 'get unlucky'). But then i find spending 3 hours only not to win big and coming just in or just out of the bubble frustrating.

Anyways, this has been a free-flowing post, maybe i need to step up limits for a harder challenge, ive built up enough money to be financial comfortable, and dont want to risk this money, so dont really want to be playing the $400 sit downs, yet i cant see my future being in $200. I find limit so darn basic its purely down to putting up with variance, thats the difficulty with limit once youve learnt a lot, dealing with watching people make bad calls and getting lucky.
Anyways, if any of you ahve had similar thoughts, or simply want to tell me to shut up, replies would be greatly appreiciated.

cheers

[Nigel]

I'm just jealous that $10k is enough for you to be financially comfortable.

Nigel

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just jealous that $10k is enough for you to be financially comfortable.

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, being in college and having a job on the side makes 10K in 3 months of poker plenty for me.

[Snoopy76]

If your bankroll can afford it and you play a good game, why not move up? I do however understand your point. Moving up a stake is more a psychological challenge then a challenge in your game play. I would recommend continuing to build your bankroll above and beyond the consensus of what a bankroll should be (500X BB, for example). I have moved up a stake 3 times since I began playing for real money. Each time my bankroll was 1.5x to 2x what popular opinion says that your bankroll should be. It’s just the amount I need to feel comfortable playing. If you don't think you could handle losing money (even if you're bankroll can handle it) you shouldn't move up. In poker, if you are afraid to lose your money then you are sure to lose your money. Don't move up a stake until you are 100% comfortable with the swings it will bring.

Well, WE all love poker so Im going to assume we all love money here. Yea 10gs helps comfortable, how comfortable would you be with 50? I would move up, the 2/4 level doesnt prove to be to different from the level your already at. Make sure your bankroll can handle a swing or 2, and put your income to the next level.
cdl

[Nigel]

When I was in college, a semester was about $16k plus about $3k a month in living expenses. That averaged out to about $7k/month in expenses. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Although, my post was kind of tongue in cheek, I'm guessing he was referring to being comfortable at his current poker level.

Cheers,

Nigel

[baronzeus]

Well, I'm on heavy financial aid, so I'm a bit lucky in that department.

On another note, CDlarmore what are you talking about? My primary game right now is 3/6 and 5/10, with some 8tabling of 2/4 for stress relief.

i wasnt raging on you at all, maybe i missed something...??? My post basically concluded if ur as great as this guy says, go make more dough at a higher table.
cdl

[john kane]

i am in a fortunate position in university as my parents pay for everything except my leisure spending (they are not loaded at all, they just saved so i could go through university without paying, it only costs a fraction here in UK than what it does over in the US). So this in the past 6 months the $10K ive made i clearly havent needed to spend it all.
Since i posted this i then went on to read a post by some guy called GGbag, something like that, some 17 year old who's made a sod load. What was being posted there made me think a lot, and my plan is to play whenever i feel like and try to build up my roll so i can easily afford to play the $400 without any concerns about dropping a couple of buy ins. Ive no want to play a 40 hour week trying to earn every dollar i can, ive got quite a few non-poker enjoyable activities (okay, one of them is getting pissed, but sport as well) and i dont want to sacrafice them for an extra 25 hours a week to play online making money i dont have time to enjoy spending.
I can see poker always being a very nice side income, just at the moment i think i have reached almost an inflexion point! I have gone from playing so i can afford to go out and do all the things i want to (to a point) to now having enough money to be able to start building up a serious bankroll and hopefully move up some limits. Just my problem is i dont have the time to play enough to build up roll at a decent pace, but then again, maybe thats a good thing.

Thanks for the replies, muchos appreciated

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly believe i have reached a point where i only make possibly 1 incorrect call or bet or raise or fold every 2-3 hours, which will cost me max 5-6 dollars. I play the 1-2NL, 200 buck sit downs.

[/ QUOTE ]



[ QUOTE ]
ive found it getting just so simple, i know what the best decision and i play correct

[/ QUOTE ]


YOU probably have some reasonably 'simple' guidelines that you are able to follow and it provides you with decent wins.
you are probably a pretty decent player in fact.

But the game is far from simple and there's no way you are making as few errors as you think.

I believe Barry Greenstein recently said in his book that he makes 20 or so mistakes per session.
And you, my friend, are no Barry Greenstein.


The game CAN be more in depth than what you are making it IF you want it to be.
Now...if you would rather go to MTT's for a different kind of challenge, that's fine. Obviously you should play whatever is most interesting and/or potentially profitable to you.

I'm just nit-picking on what I believe is the VERY dangerous assumption that you have pretty much figured out poker and make so few mistakes and virtually always know what the correct play is.
The game just isn't THAT simple. And I think more players would be better off if they thought of it with more of a Barry Greenstein 'did i REALLY play that hand correctly or could i have done better?' type of approach.


there are so many decisions throughout the course of a hand and it's just not possible to always get it right every step of the way...although sometimes the difference between the choices is fairly small...but the difference is there nonetheless and CAN make a difference.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
8tabling of 2/4 for stress relief.

[/ QUOTE ]

you limit guys really weird me out sometimes

fim

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Right, ive been playing for quite a few years to fill time and the last 15 months ive been playing seriously, 15 hours a week approximately. I play NL holdem short handed. I honestly believe i have reached a point where i only make possibly 1 incorrect call or bet or raise or fold every 2-3 hours, which will cost me max 5-6 dollars. I play the 1-2NL, 200 buck sit downs. This year ive made just over $10,000 playing part time, roughly 15 hours a week, but had to stop playing now and again for exams. But my hourly rate when i kept records for january, feb, and march was from memory $37/hour, pretty good i think.
I dont play ultra aggressive, but i raise a lot by 2-4BB when i have postion and then act accordingly due to position and who im up against (i usually raise with position though).
So anyway, recently, in the last month, ive found it getting just so simple, i know what the best decision and i play correct and whenever i lose i know its simply been the cards havent hit and have for the others and its just good decisions with bad outcomes.
Part of me thinks i should move up limits, but i dont want to, i wont feel comfortable playing 2-4NL, 400 buck sit downs, i wouldnt be able to play my A game style. My bankroll could just afford it, but i wouldnt like making any +EV pretty big calls knowing how much i could lose in a session.
Any else ever gone through this? Ive been thinking maybe i could switch to MTTs for a month or so to try and play peerfect and to get lucky with the cards (as you have to in MTTs, not 'get lucky', but simply not 'get unlucky'). But then i find spending 3 hours only not to win big and coming just in or just out of the bubble frustrating.

Anyways, this has been a free-flowing post, maybe i need to step up limits for a harder challenge, ive built up enough money to be financial comfortable, and dont want to risk this money, so dont really want to be playing the $400 sit downs, yet i cant see my future being in $200. I find limit so darn basic its purely down to putting up with variance, thats the difficulty with limit once youve learnt a lot, dealing with watching people make bad calls and getting lucky.
Anyways, if any of you ahve had similar thoughts, or simply want to tell me to shut up, replies would be greatly appreiciated.

cheers

[/ QUOTE ]

you sound ready for the $1K game. just PM any of the midhigh PLNL regs and they'll hook you upwith a seat in their game.

fim

[danzasmack]

over under on follow up bad beat post = 2 days

[poker-penguin]

I'll take the under, and parlay it with the under on "online poker is rigged" post as well.

[J. Sawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I find limit so darn basic its purely down to putting up with variance...


[/ QUOTE ]

omg your a genius

[john kane]

i think limit is very easy, but at the stakes ive played. probably when you get to 10-20 and above then there are far higher % of good players per table. but anything less than 5-10 you simply sit there, watch the opponents as much as you can, and never go on tilt, playing perfect implied pot odds poker and deciding as best you can what they have etc and trying to make the best decisions, knowing what your opponent is most likely to do before you take the correct course of action, whether you think you can bluff him off or not etc.
The reason why so many of us win a lot at low limits, because the opposition is so bad, yes some players are good, but some are bad, and as that quote goes something like 'most of the money you'll make in poker is not from you great play, but from the bad decisions of others', and its completely true for low limits.
im not claiming to be a poker prodigy, just a guy who knows how to make consistently good decisions, like most of us do. yes if i could see the other guys cards some of them would be different, but hopefully they are all +EV

[FlyWf]

$3K a month in living expenses above and beyond tuition(for room and board)? Where in God's name did you go to college?

Your dorm room better have been a goddamn palace.

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
$3K a month in living expenses above and beyond tuition(for room and board)? Where in God's name did you go to college?

Your dorm room better have been a goddamn palace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

My monthly expenses didn't equal over $1K a month, and I am in California, where cost of living is pretty high. That includes dorm. My yearly tuition was only $4K. I guess he went to a private school, or a huge public one. I still don't see why his monthly expenses were so high though.

I don't know how you can make that much online no matter how you play. I have played 2-4 NL and even had long sessions making $20/30/40 an hour but then I am SET-UP: Delt KK, pushed all in on a flop of rags and lost to my opponent hitting a set of 5's on the river (the flop had 2 overcards against his 5's), that cost me 3 hours of "work" PLUS my entire initial bankroll.

Then I am delt AJ and flop comes something like AQ5, my opponent goes all in and hits a 6 on the river (he had 65o!). There goes another 2 hours of work.

Then after going from $120 to $400, AK and the flop is AKx, my opponent calls all my bets down to the river with his JT w/o a flush draw and hits a Q on the river.

Sorry if this sounds like a bad beat story but online Poker is realy luck. I'll admit I had my share as well. This one time I stayed about even for 4 hours, then had A /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, limped in, calls a re-raise preflop on a "feeling" and flop comes K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, both my opponents respectively had KK and QQ and I did not have to make a single raise until the river before taking down two big stacks.

In real life I know players I won't beat no matter what and some players (degenerates) that I will beat no matter what and usually only have to convince them to play me HU for as much as possible. Poker is a mind game. You gotta play the players not the cards. That's the thing about live Poker, you can always have a physical read (and randomeness assurance!)

[mmmmmbrother]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how you can make that much online no matter how you play. I have played 2-4 NL and even had long sessions making $20/30/40 an hour but then I am SET-UP: Delt KK, pushed all in on a flop of rags and lost to my opponent hitting a set of 5's on the river (the flop had 2 overcards against his 5's), that cost me 3 hours of "work" PLUS my entire initial bankroll.

Then I am delt AJ and flop comes something like AQ5, my opponent goes all in and hits a 6 on the river (he had 65o!). There goes another 2 hours of work.

Then after going from $120 to $400, AK and the flop is AKx, my opponent calls all my bets down to the river with his JT w/o a flush draw and hits a Q on the river.

Sorry if this sounds like a bad beat story but online Poker is realy luck. I'll admit I had my share as well. This one time I stayed about even for 4 hours, then had A /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, limped in, calls a re-raise preflop on a "feeling" and flop comes K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, both my opponents respectively had KK and QQ and I did not have to make a single raise until the river before taking down two big stacks.

In real life I know players I won't beat no matter what and some players (degenerates) that I will beat no matter what and usually only have to convince them to play me HU for as much as possible. Poker is a mind game. You gotta play the players not the cards. That's the thing about live Poker, you can always have a physical read (and randomeness assurance!)

[/ QUOTE ]
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2574/bigslickcanucks5iw.jpg

[baronzeus]

Hey Canucks, guess what? I'm the guy who cracked your kings with 65o. I thought you were bluffing.

Thanks I bought an IPod with your money.

[MicroBob]

I'm sorry to hear that you suck at poker.
It's unfortunate that so many people are too stupid to learn how to play well.


[ QUOTE ]
cost me 3 hours of "work" PLUS my entire initial bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]


you had your whole bankroll on the table at once? golly.

[ QUOTE ]

you had your whole bankroll on the table at once? golly.

[/ QUOTE ]
By bankroll I meant Buy-In. $120 buy in, brought it up to $300 in three hours slowly without delivering a single bad beat and lost it all on that one hand.

Oh and I suck at Poker for going all-in on a rags flop with an overpair? Whatever. I read the bluff and I read correctly.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is a mind game. You gotta play the players not the cards. That's the thing about live Poker, you can always have a physical read (and randomeness assurance!)


[/ QUOTE ]
Wow. That is a lot of wisdom in such few words. Great things do come in small packages. And with only 3 posts under yr belt too! I can tell you are going to have a lot to offer 2+2.

<font color="white">At least in the way of ammusement.

[utmt40]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how you can make that much online no matter how you play. I have played 2-4 NL and even had long sessions making $20/30/40 an hour but then I am SET-UP: Delt KK, pushed all in on a flop of rags and lost to my opponent hitting a set of 5's on the river (the flop had 2 overcards against his 5's), that cost me 3 hours of "work" PLUS my entire initial bankroll.

Then I am delt AJ and flop comes something like AQ5, my opponent goes all in and hits a 6 on the river (he had 65o!). There goes another 2 hours of work.

Then after going from $120 to $400, AK and the flop is AKx, my opponent calls all my bets down to the river with his JT w/o a flush draw and hits a Q on the river.

Sorry if this sounds like a bad beat story but online Poker is realy luck. I'll admit I had my share as well. This one time I stayed about even for 4 hours, then had A /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, limped in, calls a re-raise preflop on a "feeling" and flop comes K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, both my opponents respectively had KK and QQ and I did not have to make a single raise until the river before taking down two big stacks.

In real life I know players I won't beat no matter what and some players (degenerates) that I will beat no matter what and usually only have to convince them to play me HU for as much as possible. Poker is a mind game. You gotta play the players not the cards. That's the thing about live Poker, you can always have a physical read (and randomeness assurance!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Eat [censored] man...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO (t7103)
Button (t5030)
<font color="#C00000">SB (t19263)</font>
BB (t5632)
UTG (t302)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t5704)</font>

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t600</font>, CO calls t600, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t500, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t1825) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1100</font>, CO folds, SB calls t1100.

Turn: (t4025) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t3979 (All-In)</font>, SB calls t3979.

River: (t11983) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t11983

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has 5c 8c (straight, eight high).
Hero has Ah Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins t11983. </font>

[emp1346]

utmt40: oh god... oh god... i've seen and been a part of some crazy [censored], even stuff with less probability of happening... but man... that's just sick... my sincere condolences...

[mmmmmbrother]

[quote
SB has 5c 8c (straight, eight high).
Hero has Ah Ad (one pair, aces).



[/ QUOTE ]

either:
"he had outs"
or
"its rigged"

[djoyce003]

well it's nice to see theredpill is back.

[utmt40]

[/ QUOTE ]
either:
"he had outs"
or
"its rigged"

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Edit: I forgot to mention that the guy who stayed in the hand and folded after the flop when I bet said he had pocket 7s.......