How to play your kill option

[hobbsmann]

Early on Saturday morning at foxwoods I was waiting to get back on a 10/20 table and was playing the 5/10 kill game to pass the time. The game at the time was incredibly passive and fairly tight for a low limit game. I've only been at the table for an orbit or two, but probably appear to be somewhat of a LAG to oppservent players.

My question for you guys is the following. You just win a kill pot and post a kill blind of $10 in MP2. It is folded around to me and I decide before looking at my cards that I'm going to be raising any two here. Is this standard? I ended up raising extremely light in the situation that arose and I'm unsure if it's correct or not.

thoughts....

thanks

[crunchy1]

I think it's important, given the image you've described of yourself at the current table, to asses how the remaining players will respond to you "LAGing it up" on your kill post.

[W. Deranged]

The response I gave to the OP when we talked about this on Saturday was this:


-Given that this is a situation where raising and folding will often both have better equity than calling, I lean toward raising any two simply because folding is not an option.
-Were it folded around to you in the button, you are absolutely raising any two on a blind "super-steal." Forcing the blinds to call $20 cold increase the chance the steal will work.
-How much value does your super-steal lose as you move a few positions away from the button? Clearly you are not raising any two from UTG, but if you would be from the button, by the intermediate value theorem there is a seat in there somewhere that it is pretty close to 0EV to raise or check. Presumably that seat is somewhere in MP.
-Knowing how the 5/10k at Foxwoods will sometimes get oddly rocky, it has been my experience that infusing a little bit of action into the game can be decidedly +EV, as the challenge at that kind of table is often just getting players to be willing to commit chips of any kind in the kills pots.

So I think raising any two from MP2 is probably a good move. At worst, it's probably neutral EV, but my suspicion is that the "break even" seat as far as this move is concerned is probably right around MP1 or MP2.

[chief444]

From MP2 at this table, I'm raising very light but not any 2 light as I would from CO. I'd probably be raising like 2/3 or so. But honestly, if it's that tight any 2 probably isn't too wrong since opponents tend to play a little tighter yet in kill pots.

[sfer]

Who's behind you and what are they doing with their cards/chips?

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
Who's behind you and what are they doing with their cards/chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I could gather in one orbit they were tight passives. At that point in the morning I was a little out of it and I wasn't paying as much attention as I should and probably could have picked up folding tells from these guys if I looked over. That being said this whole table seemed to be scared of playing kill pots which seemed to be the dominant reason for raising light.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who's behind you and what are they doing with their cards/chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I could gather in one orbit they were tight passives. At that point in the morning I was a little out of it and I wasn't paying as much attention as I should and probably could have picked up folding tells from these guys if I looked over. That being said this whole table seemed to be scared of playing kill pots which seemed to be the dominant reason for raising light.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the case then it's a pretty easy raise regardless of your cards.

[ThisHo]

Having read previous posts, I agree with the "raise any 2" philosophy for reasons described:
1 - chance to steal
2 - meta game "loosen it up" stuff
3 - sfer's "whats going on downstream" is good stuff. Thanks for the reminder - I don't play much live and it usually takes a few orbits for me to remember this tip (i suck at poker).
Other questions:
1a - do you just raise blind?
1b - if 1a = yes, do you announce "blind raise baby!"
1c - if 1a = no, how flamboyant is the raise? Is this card dependant (i.e. big cards fire the chips with a flair and hollar "raise it up baby!" or "I'm on a rush, lets build a pot baby!")?


Also of note: at my local cardroom, the killer is last to act preflop regardless of position making it nearly impossible to steal.

ThisHo

[W. Deranged]

Definitely don't just raise blind because that will actually encourage other people to play against you. In other words, it cuts down the probability you'll win the hand uncontested pre-flop. When you cut that number down the value of raising decreases a lot.

Just act as if the raise is legit. You also want to maintaing the possibility of winning the pot on the flop with a bet. You're not just gambooling.

[hobbsmann]

So after I decide I need to raise any two I look down at my cards to give the other players the impression that I might have a hand and see Q3o.

I raise, MP3 cold calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (4.5 SBs) KQ2r
I bet, MP3 calls

Turn: (3.25 BB) J
I bet, MP3 calls

River: (5.25 BB) J
I check, MP3 checks

How did I do? Check the turn?

[W. Deranged]

Beautiful, Hobbs. River is probably too thin to merit a value bet, particularly as many players might be playing a little more weakly than average with a semi-decent hand because the pot is killed.