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View Full Version : Calling an All In with KQo with 5 left?


rvg72
08-01-2005, 02:29 AM
I'm pretty sure the KQo call here is a good one - what other hands do you call here with?

#Game No : 2458649988
***** Hand History for Game 2458649988 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14442873 Level:7 Blinds(150/300) - Monday, August 01, 02:15:18 EDT 2005
Table Table 13834 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: Kerrby2 ( $1060 )
Seat 3: Mpad1979 ( $1125 )
Seat 4: ryry27 ( $3150 )
Seat 7: HERO ( $1435 )
Seat 9: hammw ( $1230 )
Trny:14442873 Level:7
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qc Kh ]
hammw folds.
Kerrby2 folds.
Mpad1979 folds.
ryry27 is all-In [3000]

rvg

Ogre
08-01-2005, 02:37 AM
call

pearljam
08-01-2005, 02:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

08-01-2005, 02:45 AM
Whats the thinking behind calling. Your behind any Ax that he might be pushing, and a coinflip with pokets. The hands you dominate arent ones he would be pushing that often. what gives?! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Ogre
08-01-2005, 02:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the thinking behind calling. Your behind any Ax that he might be pushing, and a coinflip with pokets. The hands you dominate arent ones he would be pushing that often. what gives?! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you have 21% of you stack in already, it makes 50/50 and 40/60s +ev

HonestIago15
08-01-2005, 02:47 AM
I'm definately not convinced this is a call.

If it is I think it's pretty close.

But I'm way too lazy to do the math right now.

08-01-2005, 03:02 AM
Im gonna be the guy to disagree. Granted he is pushing you for your blinds, 5 handed you are not in trouble yet. It is 3:00am and it probably is +EV to call, but still... you have at least one more time round the table before blinds will catch up with you, wait for the Ax to push

david050173
08-01-2005, 03:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the thinking behind calling. Your behind any Ax that he might be pushing, and a coinflip with pokets. The hands you dominate arent ones he would be pushing that often. what gives?! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The SB could be pushing a larger range than ax and pair. Some big stacks will be pushing any 2 here. If plug it into the power tools, you have to be able to figure out if he will push k2+ and some qs before this becomes an EV+ call. Personally I fold most of the time. Look at the other stacks. Except for the one big one, they are all about the same level of yours. I think you need to be patient and hope to get a pushing chance

lastchance
08-01-2005, 03:42 AM
It depends on Villain. Some Villains just don't like pushing, and they'll most often complete here. When they push, it doesn't mean K2o, or Q5, or something like that.

They push something like Ax, any pair, K9+, QT, JTs, or something like that, which is absolutely horrible, of course. Hell, since they like limping, they might limp more, trying to "trap" you.

However, if I or any 2+2er is in the SB, you better believe we're shoving the hands mentioned above, and more, much more here. I think a lot about shoving 32o here, though Villains like calling a lot.

So, with any aggressive read, I call here. Otherwise, I might fold, but damn, I'm tempted.

Maulik
08-01-2005, 08:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It depends on Villain. Some Villains just don't like pushing, and they'll most often complete here. When they push, it doesn't mean K2o, or Q5, or something like that.

They push something like Ax, any pair, K9+, QT, JTs, or something like that, which is absolutely horrible, of course. Hell, since they like limping, they might limp more, trying to "trap" you.

However, if I or any 2+2er is in the SB, you better believe we're shoving the hands mentioned above, and more, much more here. I think a lot about shoving 32o here, though Villains like calling a lot.

So, with any aggressive read, I call here. Otherwise, I might fold, but damn, I'm tempted.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are definately ahead of most SB's pushing range

=\

45suited
08-01-2005, 08:51 AM
Against most opponents (who are pushing a very wide range of hands) I call this one pretty quickly.

tigerite
08-01-2005, 08:52 AM
I love people who call with KQ or KJ in the bb to my shove from the sb, as it's so often I have Ax and beat them, but that's when things aren't so desperate as here, I think you do have to call because of the blinds and your stack.

45suited
08-01-2005, 08:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I love people who call with KQ or KJ in the bb to my shove from the sb, as it's so often I have Ax and beat them

[/ QUOTE ]

When I push with Ax from the SB, I'm not thrilled when the BB calls with KQ. Yeah, I'm favored, but I'd rather pick up the blinds uncontested.

In this case, with the stacks and blinds such as they are, I really think calling is pretty easy.

tigerite
08-01-2005, 09:01 AM
Whilst I understand the sentiment, you're not likely to get much better than a 60/40 chance of a double up, I guess it depends on the stage of the tournament - I wasn't talking about on the bubble, though.

Uppercut
08-01-2005, 10:38 AM
Fold and then reread Sklansky's explanation of the Gap Concept.

tigerite
08-01-2005, 10:42 AM
That relates to bigger stacks than having <4BB left should you fold, I think.

rvg72
08-01-2005, 01:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Fold and then reread Sklansky's explanation of the Gap Concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe reread what actually occurred in this hand and try to apply your readings to the late stages of an SNG.

Over 20% of my chips were in the big blind, the big stack goes all-in from the small blind and I would be getting good pot odds to call here with a hand that likely isn't dominated.

I'm surprised that some people would fold this in the situation I was in. To them, what would you call with then? AJ+,TT+??? That has to be wrong.

johnnybeef
08-01-2005, 01:59 PM
at first glance, this one looks pretty borderline. even with the blinds as big as they are.

johnnybeef
08-01-2005, 02:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
. To them, what would you call with then? AJ+,TT+??? That has to be wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little too tight. I'd say 88+ A9+ KJs+.

ldavidjm
08-01-2005, 02:04 PM
The first thing that popped into my head was fold, but now I'm not so sure. I think it comes down to reads, if the other guy has been playing laggy I call, otherwise I fold because a lot of normal players have a rather small pushing range, even with the big stack. I still think I fold and hope its folded to me next hand in the SB.

david050173
08-01-2005, 02:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold and then reread Sklansky's explanation of the Gap Concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe reread what actually occurred in this hand and try to apply your readings to the late stages of an SNG.

Over 20% of my chips were in the big blind, the big stack goes all-in from the small blind and I would be getting good pot odds to call here with a hand that likely isn't dominated.

I'm surprised that some people would fold this in the situation I was in. To them, what would you call with then? AJ+,TT+??? That has to be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once they are in the middle they aren't your chips. They are chips in a pot which might give you better odds to call. If you fold here, you are pretty much equal with 4 other stacks and 1 monster stack which is a lot of different situation than if there were 3 big stacks and 2 stacks of your size.

As far as calling ranges, you really don't want to be calling a lot of all ins even if you are slightly ahead. To me this is a really edge case and you really need a feel for what the SB would be pushing with here to make a call.

45suited
08-01-2005, 02:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is a little too tight. I'd say 88+ A9+ KJs+.

[/ QUOTE ]

Johnny, I'm confused by this combined with your other post. Are you saying you'd fold here? I can't see folding KQo and calling with KJs.

I think I'd call here (obvious call if bigstack has been pushing alot). What would you do?

johnnybeef
08-01-2005, 02:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a little too tight. I'd say 88+ A9+ KJs+.

[/ QUOTE ]

Johnny, I'm confused by this combined with your other post. Are you saying you'd fold here? I can't see folding KQo and calling with KJs.

I think I'd call here (obvious call if bigstack has been pushing alot). What would you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im running this off the top of my head as an estimate, and as it turns out, its damn close. This one would be a feel call for me, depending upon how I'm running, how I well I control the table,etc.

rvg72
08-01-2005, 02:44 PM
Some detail on the villains

He had gone all-in preflop 3 times in the last 9 hands (I had gone in 3 times as well over the last 9). All 4 opponents had played tight aggressive games although the other 3 weren't pushing preflop very often (they liked to see the flop).

I make this call 100% of the time - really the question I was aking is how low would you make this call (ie KJ? KT? QJs? A7? 55? etc) and am surprised that there was debate on the KQ call...

Good to here other's perspectives on this though.

tigerite
08-01-2005, 03:31 PM
This looks quite familiar to this hand I just played

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t947)
Button (t2524)
Hero (t1378)
BB (t3151)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. UTG is all-in (t947),
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero folds.