56s in LP [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 05:24 PM

party 10/20, good loose game. A little passive, a bit aggressive, depending on the loose players' respective positions.

3 limpers to me in the CO, I call with 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6. /images/graemlins/spade.gif, BB checks.

5 to flop for 5.5sbs: A/images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Everyone checks.

5 to turn for 2.75 bb's: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

LP (tag-ish type) bets, I call, everyone folds.

River: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

LP bets, I call. How'd I do?

Brunger

07-31-2005, 05:33 PM

I think you played it fine but as a sidebar how often do you bet that flop. I would do so about half the time and a lot of the time if the players were passive or at least str8 forward.

wheeler

07-31-2005, 05:33 PM

Good. I much prefer calling the turn to raising, since you have three players behind you and the pot is piddling small.

The river call is borderline. I think it's one of those situations where the EV of calling and folding are about the same.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 05:35 PM

wheeler

07-31-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine but as a sidebar how often do you bet that flop. I would do so about half the time and a lot of the time if the players were passive or at least str8 forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the point of betting the flop? If the players are passive then your bet is for value, but I don't think you have enough equity here to bet for value.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's one of those situations where the EV of calling and folding are about the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

How's that?

wheeler

07-31-2005, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's one of those situations where the EV of calling and folding are about the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

How's that?

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Well you're getting 6:1 to call. I think you're good about 20% of the time.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 05:41 PM

I think you're good way more than that.

wheeler

07-31-2005, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're good way more than that.

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Yeah maybe you're right. Not way more, but maybe it's more than I first thought. Flop got checked around; three people checked the turn, so LP could easily be on a steal. But he's betting into 5 people and the pot isn't very big.

HolyBejeesus

07-31-2005, 05:50 PM

The TAG is betting from LP after it was checked around twice, and the top card on the board paired. I don't give him credit for much of a hand on the turn. With the right read, I would consider a semibluff raise on the turn, so he could drop a hand that he was just taking a stab with.

If you don't think that he would fold though, I would play it exactly like you did. While I don't like his river bet, you'll see a continued bluff often enough to call.

chief444

07-31-2005, 06:08 PM

He may have 10 outs and will occasionally take it down with the flop bet on an A-high board checked to him. By occasionally I mean quite possibly enough to be profitable. I think I do take the free card but a flop bet here doesn't seem pointless to me.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 06:13 PM

Put him on a range of hands.

illogical

07-31-2005, 06:24 PM

I think it's unlikely he checks an ace or set on the flop, so I would put him on a 5, straight, or a bluff.

damaniac

07-31-2005, 06:27 PM

What about a deuce or a four? I expect to see either a pair or a busted flush/straight draw a large portion of the time here.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 06:28 PM

*Maybe* a straight. But that would mean he limped with a 3 and its not likely.

Does nobody see the possibility of a mid PP like 66 or 77?

illogical

07-31-2005, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*Maybe* a straight. But that would mean he limped with a 3 and its not likely.

Does nobody see the possibility of a mid PP like 66 or 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but wouldn't LP check/call on the river with an overpair... unless he thinks you wouldn't limp with a 3 too.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 06:36 PM

Probably. Maybe. Maybe he'd think I'd let it get checked through. Does this seem like a better place for a bet-fold or a check-call?

HolyBejeesus

07-31-2005, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*Maybe* a straight. But that would mean he limped with a 3 and its not likely.

Does nobody see the possibility of a mid PP like 66 or 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't these the only hands we are worried about?
I don't think we can restrict his range very much. I would take a stab with almost any 2 in his shoes. While I probably wouldn't follow through with a river bet on a total bluff, many players would so I think calling is the best option.

HolyBejeesus

07-31-2005, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*Maybe* a straight. But that would mean he limped with a 3 and its not likely.

Does nobody see the possibility of a mid PP like 66 or 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but wouldn't LP check/call on the river with an overpair... unless he thinks you wouldn't limp with a 3 too.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of players think "I have the best hand, time to bet," without considering the other choices.

brettbrettr

07-31-2005, 06:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LP (tag-ish type) bets,

[/ QUOTE ]

HolyBejeesus

07-31-2005, 06:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LP (tag-ish type) bets,

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of tags could find a value bet here. It's not really a braindead play, is it?

illogical

07-31-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does this seem like a better place for a bet-fold or a check-call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about this one for a while... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif I would say check/call to see showdown but I'm beginning to see how this could be a better spot for a bet-fold...

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

shant

07-31-2005, 07:27 PM

What's so wrong with betting the flop?

brettbrettr

08-01-2005, 12:51 AM

I don't think anything is that wrong with it. But with 2 weak draws I was happy to take the free card.

callmedonnie

08-01-2005, 02:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're good way more than that.

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Though I think you are good more than 20%, why way more? It seems that if you thought you were good way more you wouldn't have bothered with a post.

brettbrettr

08-01-2005, 09:38 AM

I think the % of the time he has a better PP than 55 is less than 20%.

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that if you thought you were good way more you wouldn't have bothered with a post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I don't think I played it poorly. But there are clearly decisions that could have gone either way...

Chairman Wood

08-01-2005, 10:30 AM

Are the first two limpers pretty loose? Are they so loose that LP doesn't think he can bluff into 3 others and take down the pot here? Okay hands I think LP has /images/graemlins/spade.gif's 33, unlikely 55, 66, 77, 88, 99. More specfically on the spades 78, 9T, JT, QJ, KT although I think a lot of tags would raise JT and QJ and KT preflop from there, maybe even 9T. So 25 combinations that beat you to 5 that you beat. So you need 4:1 or better. I think add a few more hands that he would bet from there on a complete steal attempt on the turn that continued on the river and will reduce the odds that you need. Thus I like it. Please, if my thought process is illogical or incorrect, tell me what I am doing wrong.