Why does "straddling" upset some players?

[judgesmails]

Sometimes I play in low-limit live games with friends in local casinos. We are just there to have a couple drinks and try to beat each other out of a pot once in a while. I always straddle and then blind raise the straddle when it gets to me. I do this to build a nice pot and to liven the game up a little - I realize it is not optimal play.

This just drives some of the other players crazy - mostly really old men - and I can never understand why it would bother someone. What do you think?

[Quercus]

It annoys me when the player to my immediate left does this. It means I never get to play my BB without have to cough up more cash.

I want a straddling doofus to my right anyway.

[shermn27]

It probably upsets them b/c they are more traditional (possibly weak/tight) players. They want to limp in and see if they hit their hand inexpensively. I think lots of home games are like this. My recommendation is that if it is pissing people off that you like to play with, stop doing it! They won't want to play with you anymore if it is really bothering them.

[tdarko]

i like donks that straddle, just puts more money in the pot for me...straddlers never win the pot anyway so i have never understood why they do it, to try and act cool or to look like they know what they are doing?

[A_C_Slater]

Because they're horrified that you might crack their aces with some random garbage.

Old rocks would rather lose a thousand dollars than have their aces get cracked just one time.

[Roy Munson]

One of the biggest reasons straddling upsets people is because they are pussies. They would be much better off learning the adjustments needed against a straddle and just shut up and play the damn game.

[AZnuts]

Straddling is just one of those things, players either hate it or love it. So the "hate it" tends to win out.

The other effect you may see is those who hate it will often say so; those that love it will keep quiet because they are getting a nice advantage.

Personally, I love a straddler, especially just to my right. More and more of my starting hands become raising hands, an he is playing a random hand for 2 or more bets voluntarily. It doesn't get much better than that.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the biggest reasons straddling upsets people is because they are pussies. They would be much better off learning the adjustments needed against a straddle and just shut up and play the damn game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Also I've notice some weak/tight sorts who are new to poker haven't come to terms with the fact that they are gambling and are going to encounter gamblers. They act like they are at a chess tournament and show a complete lack of understanding of what makes a good game (i.e. gambling atmosphere).

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
Also I've notice some weak/tight sorts who are new to poker haven't come to terms with the fact that they are gambling

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit it. I went through this phase.

It took me a while to come out of it too.

[dozer]

I never understood why players get upset at stradlers.
One time this semi loose weak player player on my left decided to straddle, but he first asked me if I would mind. I thought that was odd, why would I care, and even if I did, he has the right to straddle, it isn't against the rules. I folded my BB, I had some offsuit junk and he apologized to me after when I folded my blind.

I guess because people get angry at straddlers often, so he thought I would get pissed or something. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
This just drives some of the other players crazy - mostly really old men - and I can never understand why it would bother someone. What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

The nits think that you're disrespecting the game. I look at it as a +EV opportunity and I make the most of it when I have a premium hand.

[beset7]

The other night I coaxed a table into going straddle, 3-bet, cap before the deal for about ten hands. It was great. I don't normally straddle unless it's 3 or 4 handed but if it livens up the table, gets the laughter and the good gambling vibe going then I am all for it.

[RydenStoompala]

[ QUOTE ]
Old rocks would rather lose a thousand dollars than have their aces get cracked just one time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother. Well said.

Other things that old rocks do not like:

- playing alone. Rocks collect like gravel at tables. They like to have two or three other rocks right beside them so that they can criticize everyone with impunity.
- Playing anything under KK for more than 2 bets. The fact that they have KK means you're an idiot for playing those suited connectors on the button with the three other callers between you and the rock. If they are playing JJ, you're a bigger idiot.
- having their flush draws stomped by a full house. AK suited is another favorite rock hand that is impossible to beat, unless of course you know anything about the game. Try knocking over AK suited that makes flush with your boat AFTER some juice pig has straddled and see what happens. It's like their grand kids have been murdered.
- they don't like people discovering that they are deaf. While the quarry of rocks may share information at 90 decibel whisper levels at "their end" of the table, your quiet snickering with fellow players at the other end is treated as rude behavior. A rock will tell his fellow rocks what a dimwitted lottery player you are, in a loud voice, and then get pissed at you for sharing a poker story at the other end of the table...because they cannot freaking hear you.

Sorry about the rant. I just had to comment on my least-favorite people. I don't know why people are always going off about young guys wearing sunglasses. Who cares? They usually have hot girlfriends and they often play stink poker. The old rocks really drag the mood into the swamp sometimes, especially when they start picking on the fish.

[Blindcurve]

I think the players that dislike the straddle probably tend to be the ones that play poker for time played/money loss ratio. Simply put, you can play poker for a lot longer for a lot less money than just about any other casino game.

Players driven by this motivation would naturally be annoyed by anything that plays havoc with their plan. These things would include the straddle, "excessive raising" and loose/marginal plays that "steal" pots they "should have won".

I don't think there's anything wrong with these players being annoyed; they're entitled to their opinions. I do think they would be better served by being aware that other players are driven by different motivations, and by adjusting accordingly.

FOITNOF,

-D.

[mosquito]

Only time straddling bothers me is when the game is
otherwise passive, and it's my big blind.
Hate not getting free plays, when they would otherwise
be there.
Rest of the time, GREAT!

[sfer]

Because they're the same people who will still limp in for 2 SBs rather than attacking pot when it's more than twice as big as normal. They can't adjust and they suck.

[William Wilson]

I invited the boyfriend of one of my wife's girlfriends to a poker night once. We were playing a few SnGs because they all like NL poker but don't have the guts to play NL cash games -- fine by me because I don't, either.

Somewhere around the 100/200 level, he straddles. Everyone wonders what the hell he is doing, so -- sounding like that one kid in seventh grade who has already had sex -- he explains it to them.

I told him I've never seen straddles in a tournament, and I told those still confused to treat it as if he was betting in the dark. But when he insisted on it being a live bet (meaning he could raise preflop), it started this argument and ego-pissing contest that lasted well over five minutes, killing the game.

Therefore, I hate those who straddle. I don't care that it's a generalization. Every person who straddles, then grins like they just invented electricity, makes me think of the douche bag who pissed off my friends and embarrassed me in my own basement.

That's it, nothing more.

[octop]

It pisses me off because it allows someone to act out of turn
I dont give two shits if you wanna raise blind but you should not be allowed to act last preflop

[Derek in NYC]

Lots of old people play poker on a fixed income, or for additional income.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
It pisses me off because it allows someone to act out of turn
I dont give two shits if you wanna raise blind but you should not be allowed to act last preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Nit

[ijustliketoplay]

[ QUOTE ]
It pisses me off because it allows someone to act out of turn
I dont give two shits if you wanna raise blind but you should not be allowed to act last preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are paying 2xBB for the privelige!! It is -EV! You should be encouraging it you fool.

[johnc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Old rocks would rather lose a thousand dollars than have their aces get cracked just one time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother. Well said.

Other things that old rocks do not like:

- playing alone. Rocks collect like gravel at tables. They like to have two or three other rocks right beside them so that they can criticize everyone with impunity.
- Playing anything under KK for more than 2 bets. The fact that they have KK means you're an idiot for playing those suited connectors on the button with the three other callers between you and the rock. If they are playing JJ, you're a bigger idiot.
- having their flush draws stomped by a full house. AK suited is another favorite rock hand that is impossible to beat, unless of course you know anything about the game. Try knocking over AK suited that makes flush with your boat AFTER some juice pig has straddled and see what happens. It's like their grand kids have been murdered.
- they don't like people discovering that they are deaf. While the quarry of rocks may share information at 90 decibel whisper levels at "their end" of the table, your quiet snickering with fellow players at the other end is treated as rude behavior. A rock will tell his fellow rocks what a dimwitted lottery player you are, in a loud voice, and then get pissed at you for sharing a poker story at the other end of the table...because they cannot freaking hear you.

Sorry about the rant. I just had to comment on my least-favorite people. I don't know why people are always going off about young guys wearing sunglasses. Who cares? They usually have hot girlfriends and they often play stink poker. The old rocks really drag the mood into the swamp sometimes, especially when they start picking on the fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Old rock story: 4/8, a black lady (habitual straddler) is constantly raising in late position, regardless of how many limpers are in, with anything. She raises with 86o, the SB & I (BB) fold and an old rock in early postion and a couple of the limpers call. The flop comes 86x rainbow and of course everyone checks she bets and just the old rock calls. The turn is jack the old rock bets, she raises, he reraises, she calls. The river is a blank and the rock bets, she calls. With a smug little smile she proudly flips over her two pair and he shows a set of jacks. She gets pissed and yells at the old rock "you called me with a pair of jacks?" he replies "well, you give me the odds to draw and I'm gunna take 'em!" Everyone at the table laughs and she procedes to go on tilt. Rock's revenge!

[StellarWind]

The blinds typically have EV equal to about 1/2 their blind payment. The straddler is effectively taking some of that money and redistributing it to the rest of the table. So if you're doing this constantly you're hurting the two players to your right and they have a valid reason to be unhappy with you.

The other thing you need to consider is why people play poker. It's true you are distributing your money to the table and that appeals to me. But let's be honest here. I also like to play hands and you are greatly reducing the number of hands I can profitably play by making it 3+ bets on every hand. But again I'll console myself with your money.

What about the 80%+ players who lose? If this were just about money they would (should) quit poker. Some of them are here to *gamble* and maybe you're just the ticket for them. But others are here to *play* and you're depriving them of their fun and the're still losing despite your generosity, especially since it's the good players who adapt and make a killing in wild games.

My view is that if people want to straddle that's fine. But as an educated winning player I hold myself to a higher standard. I'm not going to make a play solely for my entertainment that knowingly puts some opponents at a disadvantage to the rest of the game. Nor am I going to spread misery if most of my customers prefer a peaceful game. They deserve to have fun while I take their money.

Now if most of the players enjoy this stuff and I need to make a sacrifice to maintain my image or enliven the game, that's different. As long as the straddle is part of a plan to win money it's perfectly fair.

[andyfox]

It, in effect, raises the stakes and add an element of uncertainty. When you raise after looking at your cards, the staddle-haters can put you, rightly or wrongly, on a hand. When you raise blind, all bets are off (so to speak). Nits hate this.

"Try knocking over AK suited that makes flush with your boat AFTER some juice pig has straddled and see what happens. It's like their grand kids have been murdered."


LMFAO...That [censored] is funny.

[octop]

I only play NL so take it for what its worth. Call me a nit or whatever but I don't see why you should be allowed to raise when it gets back to you
Why cant I buy the button for a BB on the flop for 4 dollars?

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the players that dislike the straddle probably tend to be the ones that play poker for time played/money loss ratio. Simply put, you can play poker for a lot longer for a lot less money than just about any other casino game.

Players driven by this motivation would naturally be annoyed by anything that plays havoc with their plan. These things would include the straddle, "excessive raising" and loose/marginal plays that "steal" pots they "should have won".

[/ QUOTE ]

Players like this, who get upset at others' -ev plays are losers the moment they sit down at the table.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
Only time straddling bothers me is when the game is
otherwise passive, and it's my big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, losing the free play sucks, but sometime when this happens try raising the straddle on even a whisper of the hand. A surprising number of times, the straddler is just trying to bully the table. If you fight back and punish his play, he'll often fold and quickly give up this strategy.

[mosquito]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only time straddling bothers me is when the game is
otherwise passive, and it's my big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, losing the free play sucks, but sometime when this happens try raising the straddle on even a whisper of the hand. A surprising number of times, the straddler is just trying to bully the table. If you fight back and punish his play, he'll often fold and quickly give up this strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually some of the folks do it as a way to be a maniac
without looking as silly. Like it really works. LOL

It's an attitude thing, there's always going to be a
split of opinion. People that want to gamb00l are feeding
the pot bottom line.

[mosch]

I wish I was surprised by all the straddle-haters in this thread, but the fact is I'm not. 2+2 is filled with mediocre, weak-tight poker "players" who despise gambling, yet voluntarily play poker.

Grow a set and look for places to re-raise.

If you've got bad position, ask for a seat change button and mention your bad luck if anybody asks why.

[octop]

Lets say UTG alwats straddled in NL every single hand
If its a 1/2 200 dollar game like party it is now it is essentially a 2/4 game so you have shorter stacks where I prefer to play a deep stacked game
Throw in the fact the big blind acts last preflop and thats why I hate straddling

[Clarkmeister]

It only irritates nits.

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
It only irritates nits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easily one of the top reasons to like straddlers is that they make it that much easier to identiy the nits.

One of these days I'm going to sit in an O8 live game in vegas and straddle.

[octop]

Like I said Im a nit then
But a very profitable one
Just because I don't like straddling doesnt mean I don't win when there is stradddling

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said Im a nit then
But a very profitable one
Just because I don't like straddling doesnt mean I don't win when there is stradddling

[/ QUOTE ]

It just means you are an insufferable nit.

[deepdowntruth]

I've never had a losing session that included a straddler. Keep'm coming.

[deepdowntruth]

Why else play but to induce players to make large bets with the worst of it? Do you get mad at morons who cold-call your raises with 76o and might beat you once in a while?

Getting pissed at a straddler is like getting pissed at a railbird who throws 20 bucks into every pot.

[octop]

Call with 76 o all day
It pisses me off bacause like I said you are forced to play a more shallow stacked game
If I played limit I wouldnt really care