Limti harder than NL?

[Fuchida]

If you want some entertainment, read the thread "Why choose Limit over No-Limit?" in Internet Gambling where all the limit players explain how limit is a much tougher game than NL.

This includes those who insist that with a $100 pot on the turn where they bet $10, they want a call from a flush draw as they have +EV because they will get his extra $10 80% of the time. I have tried and failed to point out the call is negative EV for them and they in fact insist that both the made hand and the chaser have +EV on the call.

I need to go lie down.

[Fuchida]

As I have just discovered, Limit is at least harder to spell than NL /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Leaky Eye]

Yes NL is harder to play well, but...

[ QUOTE ]
I have tried and failed to point out the call is negative EV for them and they in fact insist that both the made hand and the chaser have +EV on the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because you are wrong.

[Fuchida]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes NL is harder to play well, but...

[ QUOTE ]
I have tried and failed to point out the call is negative EV for them and they in fact insist that both the made hand and the chaser have +EV on the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong how?

100 in the pot plus 10 from you

If he folds, you get $110 on average

If he calls, you get 120 80% of the time and nothing 20% of the time. Therefore on average you get (120x4)/5 = $96

Therefore, if he calls, you lose $14.

Perhaps you could point out the error (with the math of course)

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

Am I a tard or is 80% of 120 less than 100% of 100.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes NL is harder to play well, but...

[ QUOTE ]
I have tried and failed to point out the call is negative EV for them and they in fact insist that both the made hand and the chaser have +EV on the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]he is not wrong... bye.

[greg nice]

the bet is +ev for you and -ev for him. your only alternative is to give a free card which is infinitely worse.

his call is +ev for him and -ev for you. you would have preferred he folded and took the pot right here.

[bigt2k4]

limit is much harder to win in than NL, since the fish are attracted to NL and 90% of the players in limit poker @ the highest levels know exactly what they are doing and never make any mathematical errors unless the odds are almost even.

[Fuchida]

[ QUOTE ]
the bet is +ev for you and -ev for him. your only alternative is to give a free card which is infinitely worse.

his call is +ev for him and -ev for you. you would have preferred he folded and took the pot right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is exactly the point I have been trying to get across on the Internet Gambling forum. I was trying to explain that in NL you can set create whatever odds you want for the caller whereas in limit its bet or don't bet.

[evil_twin]

[ QUOTE ]
limit is much harder to win in than NL, since the fish are attracted to NL and 90% of the players in limit poker @ the highest levels know exactly what they are doing and never make any mathematical errors unless the odds are almost even.

[/ QUOTE ]

So NL at the highest levels is full of fish? Try again.

[Mackerel]

Having played limit HE up to, and including, $50-$100 for over 2 decades, my opinon is that NL is much harder to master than limit, due primarily to the much greater number of options at your disposal. The edge that a very good player has over a bad player is much, much greater in NL. Ironically, however, this edge also allows more mediorce players to be more successful at NL IMO. Because the edge that you typically have over the worst players is so much smaller in limit, you can't afford to miss many opportunities and still win consistently.

You also get a lot more suckouts in limit because, as your example illustrates, you often cannot offer odds that make it incorrect for your opponent to draw. You are correct in your assessment here that you lose EV when your opponent calls (and thus he gains EV), however you still must bet, because the alternative is to offer the draw infinite odds.

I'm hooked on NL now, and find limit to be a pretty boring game in comparison. I just wish I was as good at it as limit (but I'm working on it). /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Fuchida]

[ QUOTE ]

You also get a lot more suckouts in limit because, as your example illustrates, you often cannot offer odds that make it incorrect for your opponent to draw. You are correct in your assessment here that you lose EV when your opponent calls (and thus he gains EV), however you still must bet, because the alternative is to offer the draw infinite odds.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. What I was trying to demonstrate in the other forum was that the bet or don't bet strategy of limit was inferior to choosing the bet size that puts you in the best position. You can change a call from -EV to a +EV situation. Unfortunately the limit responders seem to all jump to the conclusion I was saying that shouldn't bet because it was -EV, which of course it isn't. Only the call itself is -EV. I have tried explaining it four times without success so I eventually just gave up. If they read players as well as posts they are better off in limit anyway.

[SmileyEH]

Fuchida, you're an idiot.

-SmileyEH

[fimbulwinter]

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I need to PUNCH MYSELF IN DA NUTS!

[/ QUOTE ]

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