Should I resteal more in spots like this?

[ilya]

I'm always folding in these situations.

***** Hand History for Game 2447642207 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:14383062 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Saturday, July 30, 04:00:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 11561 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: Sean_X ( $2905 )
Seat 7: CBOUDREAU ( $1105 )
Seat 8: StneColdCall ( $900 )
Seat 10: gasfield ( $3090 )
Trny:14383062 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to StneColdCall [ 9d Jd ]
gasfield folds.
Sean_X folds.
CBOUDREAU raises [225].
StneColdCall folds.


Ok, this may not be the best example. But say I have the same hand and both SB and I have 400 more chips, and it's 5-handed.

[Newt_Buggs]

without a read this is an easy fold. If he has been stealing frequently or you have a note that he does from previous games and he isn't super loose then this is a push. Somewhere inbetween and it gets tricky IMO.

[curtains]

It pains me to fold this to the only other shortstack at a random $33 table.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

It pains me to fold this to the only other shortstack at a random $33 table.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you push 90% of the time?

[curtains]

Well before the hand you are down only 200 chips on your opponent, yet if you fold you are down almost 2-1. I'd probably move allin. I honestly feel that flat calling and hoping for a good flop while getting 3-1 is better than just folding here.

It's likely a competition between you and the SB to see who comes in 4th place. You also have some folding equity here....especially since its a $33. It just seems like a good time to take a stand to me. It's also very important that the 3rd place guy is the one in the SB. If it was anyone else folding is much easier, because you gain a lot less EV by doubling up against someone with 2500 chips.

This is a tough situation though, and cases can be made for moving allin, folding and calling. I know everyone hates calling but you are getting 3-1 on your money with a decent hand. You will hit something on the flop a good % of the time. If there was another shorter stack, for instance someone with like 1500 chips, I'd be a lot more willing to fold also.

Anyway I suspect most everyone will disagree with me here and I could easily be wrong about my opinion here. Fortunately I don't remember having a situation like this in a very long time.

[PrayingMantis]

This spot is tricky without a read, IMO. His raise looks a bit too suspicious. I think there's a better than normal probablity he does have a big/pretty good hand here. It's not a normal resteal situation as you state in the title for this thread, because it doesn't feel like a normal steal. A push would be a more normal steal. Another reason for this not being a normal situation for seal/resteal, is that villain probably isn't going to fold here enough, so you have little FE. Even if he makes this with some weak ace, he isn't going to fold this. The only times he folds this are when it's a pure steal. Again, I don't think that's the case often enough.

I actually think the idea of calling here is not completely crazy. If he does have a big hand, he's making the classic mistake of letting you see a rather cheap flop with position (although his position has some advantages too of course, as he's acting first post-flop, and you don't have stop and go privileges).

Bottom line, I don't think pushing against him is very productive here without a good read. A call is an interesting possibility and folding isn't a bad default.

It's somewhat close, but I think that if you fold this you still have just enough of a stack to exercize some FE in the next orbit.

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]

Well before the hand you are down only 200 chips on your opponent, yet if you fold you are down almost 2-1. I'd probably move allin. I honestly feel that flat calling and hoping for a good flop while getting 3-1 is better than just folding here.

It's likely a competition between you and the SB to see who comes in 4th place. You also have some folding equity here....especially since its a $33. It just seems like a good time to take a stand to me. It's also very important that the 3rd place guy is the one in the SB. If it was anyone else folding is much easier, because you gain a lot less EV by doubling up against someone with 2500 chips.

This is a tough situation though, and cases can be made for moving allin, folding and calling. I know everyone hates calling but you are getting 3-1 on your money with a decent hand. You will hit something on the flop a good % of the time. If there was another shorter stack, for instance someone with like 1500 chips, I'd be a lot more willing to fold also.

Anyway I suspect most everyone will disagree with me here and I could easily be wrong about my opinion here. Fortunately I don't remember having a situation like this in a very long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... you have no FE vs. a random $33er preflop and it is highly likely that you have the worst hand. They will suspect a resteal and call with any 2 decent cards. I think you have more FE on a random flop because people really underestimate the value of ace high (playing their opponent's cards and not their own specifically) in these situations.

[Jman28]

I agree pretty much with what everyone else has said.

The #1 thing I write in players notes is when they make slightly larger than min raises in the SB or on the button (I call them steal raises), and how often they do, and what they have shown down.

Curtains has a very good point about not wanting to give chips to the other short stack on the bubble.

If you think you have decent FE, I push. Otherwise I call (unless I have a read that he raises only premium hands).

[durron597]

There are lots of opponents who simply don't understand why not pushing in this spot is bad. My thoughts echo curtains' on this spot, except to say that your opponent is getting better than 2:1 to call so he should call with any two. But he might not realize that himself, since he didn't realize that he should have pushed in the first place.

In a $215 I would fold here because I would expect my opponent to know why not pushing is wrong. But in a $33 it's tough.

I don't see why calling is correct since if we're putting him on a premium hand the stacks aren't deep enough to make this call, and he acts first so we can't stop and go. And if we call fold we just lost almost half our stack.

[valenzuela]

what an horrible, horrible spot.
U push,he calls.
u fold, he has 2-1 chip advantage.
u call, he bets 150..u fold..arghhhh.
I just push and pray.

[PokerAmateur4]

Assuming they both had 30% more chips or so, do you still think his opponent's move is poor at the 11s? I have seen this weak raise work very often. They will fold alot more hands than they probably should.

[valenzuela]

1)not becuase ure oponent its on a diifuclt spot it means ure on an easy spot...in this situation the losers are the players involved and the winners are the big stacks who are watching.
2) if u really want to know if min-raising>pushing,well push all-in sometimes, min-raise the other time..and see how u do better.

edit: what i mean by number 1 random thought is that , even though min-raising pisses ure oponent off and complicates himself, he might raise or call, and leave u on avery complicated situation.