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private joker
07-30-2005, 03:07 AM
BB is a donk idiot. No read on button, but I bet he voted for Bush, listens to Jack Johnson, and likes giving people high-fives at work.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (12.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB
Jake (The Snake)
07-30-2005, 03:14 AM
Getting 15-1 I'd call the river against an unknown because of KJ and QJ.
07-30-2005, 03:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
BB is a donk idiot. No read on button, but I bet he voted for Bush, listens to Jack Johnson, and likes giving people high-fives at work.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe. He's probably also the type that likes to say, "that's the ticket."

As for the hand, check-call the river. Protect yourself against a psychopath who'd get their fix trying to bluff in this spot.
mikeyvegas
07-30-2005, 03:34 AM
Heads up, closing the action on the river, and getting 15:1 I call this against an unknown and expect to see K-J enough times to make it correct.
toss
07-30-2005, 03:39 AM
I don't even think we'll see KJ one out of fifteen times here. That river card suuucks.
dozer
07-30-2005, 04:52 AM
I wanted to make a post about bet folding the river in big pots after reading this article. I'll just hi jack your thread instead/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LINK (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/Pruitt0705.html)

the article brings up some good points on scare cards like these. Your opponent is usually scared that you have an Ace, so unless they have a fullhouse or the straight, they would just call with 2 pair and hope you are bluffing.
But I still have a hard time bet folding in these situations, even though it is probably correct to do so.
private joker
07-30-2005, 05:03 AM
The Dude speaks...
Harv72b
07-30-2005, 05:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No read on button, but I bet he voted for Bush, listens to Jack Johnson, and likes giving people high-fives at work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Between the two of them, I've voted for Bush 4 times. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I also have a hard time believing that Button is raising the river without at least a straight. You raised UTG &amp; played this hard all the way, so I don't see how he can't figure you for an A or FH at this point. My thinking is that if you can't fold to a raise on this river, you should just check/call.
TheHammer24
07-30-2005, 08:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to make a post about bet folding the river in big pots after reading this article. I'll just hi jack your thread instead/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LINK (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/Pruitt0705.html)

the article brings up some good points on scare cards like these. Your opponent is usually scared that you have an Ace, so unless they have a fullhouse or the straight, they would just call with 2 pair and hope you are bluffing.
But I still have a hard time bet folding in these situations, even though it is probably correct to do so.

[/ QUOTE ] link doesn't work
Nick C
07-30-2005, 08:33 PM
This is one of those hands where, if I bet the river, afterwards I'd probably be wondering if I should've just checked instead.

What you did seems all right to me, and I guess Button is probably betting most hands that beat you if you check (excpet for, maybe, something like K9), while checking behind hands like KJ/QJ. So that's a reason to bet, but, if somehow you're still best, this isn't a board where it's going to be that easy to get paid off (partly, I'm thinking, because you just won't have the best hand anymore all that often). And checking would at least let you see if BB wants to checkraise without investing anything on the river first.
winky51
07-30-2005, 08:45 PM
#1 you gotta ask yourself why if he raising the flop? A draw? If only the J makes the straight then what kind of hands is this player calling PF with? A straight seems unlikely.

AJ, AT hed raise the turn.
T9? He would not raise the flop there.
A9? He would not raise the flop.

There are no real open ended draws if you think about it. I could credit the raiser with AK, TT (rare), or KJ. KJ being the most likely hand since AK would reraise and TT there is only 1 way to make the quads.

Ax would not raise the flop either.

I would call on the river for sure and expect to see KJ. The flop raiser probably thinks you got AK. KJ would make sense also, top pair, straight draw.
CallMeIshmael
07-30-2005, 08:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I bet he listens to Jack Johnson

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad..

[ QUOTE ]
he voted for Bush

[/ QUOTE ]

worse..

[ QUOTE ]
likes giving people high-fives at work.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree on this one. The high five is cool in certain contexts.




- Revive the high five in 05
Michael Davis
07-30-2005, 08:52 PM
"This is one of those hands where, if I bet the river, afterwards I'd probably be wondering if I should've just checked instead."

I agree. This is a pretty bad bet. You're really not getting paid off by anything after that river card. Really, the only prayer you have is to check and call and hope to snap off a bluff, but what should really be discussed is whether we should fold after we check the river, not whether we should fold to the river raise, which is automatic.

-Michael
private joker
07-30-2005, 09:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The high five is cool in certain contexts.

- Revive the high five in 05

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, Todd from Scrubs?

http://www.nbc.com/photos/Primetime/Scrubs/2SCRbj04.jpg
shant
07-30-2005, 09:44 PM
High-fiving people is rad. High-fiving dogs is super rad.
ebranig
07-30-2005, 11:39 PM
Is UTG raising with KQo at a ten-handed 5/10 table really standard? Am I missing something?
dozer
07-31-2005, 12:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to make a post about bet folding the river in big pots after reading this article. I'll just hi jack your thread instead/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LINK (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/Pruitt0705.html)

the article brings up some good points on scare cards like these. Your opponent is usually scared that you have an Ace, so unless they have a fullhouse or the straight, they would just call with 2 pair and hope you are bluffing.
But I still have a hard time bet folding in these situations, even though it is probably correct to do so.

[/ QUOTE ] link doesn't work

[/ QUOTE ]

LINK (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/issue7/Pruitt0705.html)
private joker
07-31-2005, 12:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. A lot of bets.
CallMeIshmael
07-31-2005, 12:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The high five is cool in certain contexts.

- Revive the high five in 05

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, Todd from Scrubs?

http://www.nbc.com/photos/Primetime/Scrubs/2SCRbj04.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You speak as if that is a negative.
ebranig
07-31-2005, 01:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. A lot of bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?!
ArturiusX
07-31-2005, 03:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]


Really?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.
uw_madtown
07-31-2005, 04:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The high five is cool in certain contexts.

- Revive the high five in 05

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, Todd from Scrubs?

http://www.nbc.com/photos/Primetime/Scrubs/2SCRbj04.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You speak as if that is a negative.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. Knocking The Todd is not cool.
private joker
07-31-2005, 02:31 PM
I'd really like to get some more discussion on how I played each street in this hand. It was really difficult.
Azhrarn
07-31-2005, 03:16 PM
I'll give it a shot.

Pf: Standard.

Flop: Standard. We have too much value to not 3-bet here, even on a coordinated board. Button's most likely holding is a pair with a straight draw, be it gushot or openender (AQ, AT, KJ, QJ, JT.) I'd say two pair is his second most likely holding. Button doesn't cap here, but that doesn't really tell us anything, as a lot of players would call intending to pop you again on the turn with a set or straight.

Turn: Ugh. A crappy card, but not so obviously bad as an A, J or 9. We have to bet here. The lack of a raise from button or BB is encouraging, but not proof that we're still ahead. A passive player could be scared to raise with trips on this board, and a tricky player might decide to slowplay his house.

River: Double ugh. I don't like the bet with two opponents still in. There's not much that pays you off, and you're probably beaten. If you check, button bets and BB raises, you have an easy fold. Otherwise, I would call for one bet, but you're almost always beat if button bets.