Was This Draw Played Well?

[bluewilde]

Trying to be more aggressive with draws, but I don't succeed here. Is this a good level of fighting back, or between being afraid of betting without a hand and knowing I'm supposed to be a little aggressive with draws like this one did I just strike at a new level of "whaaa???"

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t770)
Button (t520)
SB (t790)
Hero (t745)
UTG (t665)
MP (t4510)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t70</font>, SB calls t40.

Turn: (t200) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t200) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: t550

[Maulik]

Personally, I don't like the raise on the flop, here's why.

The bettor is either on a draw or going to see the next card regardless. You need to hit before you become satisfied and you've got position on him. Here, I'll just use my position. Also, if the /images/graemlins/spade.gif hits are you sure he's going to pay you off?

[willbb99]

I agree. The flop raise is only sweetening a pot that you're not sure you're going to win. Unless you're planning on bluffing later in the hand (which I wouldn't recommend) I would stay away from miniraising. The rest looks okay.

[durron597]

I like the raise on the flop. With this raise you:

1) Sometimes win the pot uncontested
2) Almost always have the turn checked to you, so you can check.

What I don't like is the size of the raise. He has to call t40 to win t160, so he's pretty much never folding. I would make it more like t110.

Then again, I play Stars so the stacks are deeper. Calling is not wrong here as you have odds to draw. But I prefer raising because I'm LAG a lot of the time.

[Ogre]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the raise on the flop. With this raise you:

1) Sometimes win the pot uncontested
2) Almost always have the turn checked to you, so you can check.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are my thoughts exactly, but i would like to raise more on the flop so you take it down unconteseted more often

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

These are my thoughts exactly, but i would like to raise more on the flop so you take it down unconteseted more often

[/ QUOTE ]

I said that too, if you read the rest of my post. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think you are missing the point of the raise...

He had position, and wanted to see the river as cheap as possible. It's called taking a free card, and with position it becomes a valuable play.

You raise looks far too weak here. Raise it up to at least 120 or so and go from there. If you get re-raised, fold.

Cheers

How did you get this nice output from the convertor. Did you use the email hand history or the history on your hard drive? did you have to edit it?

Whenever I paste a hand history from my hard drive into this convertor I get an error. Unrecognized or something.

Maybe you can paste me the exact raw input you give to this tool so I can see what I am doing wrong?

Thanks!!

[Ogre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

These are my thoughts exactly, but i would like to raise more on the flop so you take it down unconteseted more often

[/ QUOTE ]


I said that too, if you read the rest of my post. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bluewilde]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are missing the point of the raise...

He had position, and wanted to see the river as cheap as possible. It's called taking a free card, and with position it becomes a valuable play.

You raise looks far too weak here. Raise it up to at least 120 or so and go from there. If you get re-raised, fold.

Cheers

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, didn't realize I minraised, ugly. I was trying to bet the pot but didn't want to argue with the slide thingy. I think, because I have position, betting out here strong is a great way to see the river cheaply. Villain checks turn anyway, but it'd be a much safer bet with a larger flop bet. I think that's my new line. What's a good strategy OOP?

[nate_king1]

I don't like the raise on the turn. You have the nuts. Give him a chance to bet at it on the River, your in position. Then raise a good amount so he will call you.

[bluewilde]

Yeah, I use the HH from my harddrive. Put it in whatever version of the bisonbison converter it is that comes up on google. And then yeah, sometimes I have to edit what it gives me. It misses when I push a lot, and it messes up pot sizes, but I just change/add those manually.

[Quercus]

Has SB given you any indication that the SB complete is out of character?

If not, I'll generally raise to about 90-100 here preflop. If someone wants my blind, they are going to need to risk some chips.

Raising the flop is fine, but as others have said, you have to make the raise something he has to think about.

[bluewilde]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the raise on the turn. You have the nuts. Give him a chance to bet at it on the River, your in position. Then raise a good amount so he will call you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm...

(1) I dont' raise on the turn
(2) I don't have a made hand on the turn
(3) I'm second to act

Do you mean the river? (3) Still applies, it's a reraise after he bets out.

[bluewilde]

No, completing is entirely in charachter. He's very non-aggressive. After the hand he said he had K5, the five being spades.

OOP I would bet pot to start, hope to take it down (probably a bit less of the pot). If I get raised it will usually be a big raise and I can get out easily.

Draws OOP are tricky plays. In fact, it would be safe to say that you are better off not to play them OOP. But if you were, its more so a semi-bluff fire oout on the flop, and then if you miss on the turn, meekly check/fold.

Since check folding is never a play you want to make, OOP this looks like you are better off simply not playing it. If you hit, you won't get paid off anyway (unless a fish is drawing to the K high, they are fun!).

I hope this post was useful.
Cheers